possible congetsion charge extension

[JohnL]

tedfudge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They are also going to increase our

> Council tax again to help fund

> TFL I dont even use public transport as I

> Work nights and drive to work and use my car

> For work. More money coming out

> Of our pockets when we are

> All struggling during covid 19

Denials all round on this today but ...

[Earl Aelfheah]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not a fan of extending the cc, it's a very blunt

> instrument. We should have progressed with road

> charging, something that comes up from time to

> time but politically a very hot potato. The

> fairest system, where you get charged for when you

> drive and where you drive. But as an occasional

> driver disappointed with successive governments

> for not putting up fuel duty, the unholy alliance

> of hauliers and farmers in 2000 put back the

> environmental cause so much.

>

> Before you all dissolve into a puddle with rage

> check out this article which gives you a great

> perspective on road pricing. If we want to play

> our part in tackling climate change we have to get

> over this concept that we are entitled to drive

> what we like, when we like, how we like and where

> we like.

> https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/road-pricing

>

> As an occasional user of public transport I'm

> happy to subsidise the masses.

Yeah agree with this. a more sophisticated road pricing system would be good (one which takes account of time of day, where you are driving, the type of vehicle etc.

[Spartacus]

Just imagine if it is extended, businesses in East Dulwich would be unfairly disadvantaged by businesses just the other side of the South Circular (Sydenham for example) as people will shop there or at out of town centres rather than driving a few yard more (figuratively) and pay a congestion charge, a ULEZ charge and any CPZ charges (that may eventually be introduced).

It will potentially result in a tragic loss of our high street IMHO.

Found this online today

https://www.change.org/p/petition-the-extension-of-congestion-charge

[exdulwicher]

Agree on the road pricing front.

Lose the "road tax" (Vehicle Excise Duty) and run a toll system based on vehicle type, time of day, distance and so on - could even bring occupancy into it so single occupant pays more than a full car.

In this country though it'd be political suicide and you'd need fairly careful management of data / privacy as well as it's essentially a tracking system.

The fact that people post their locations on Facebook / Instagram and it can be tracked via Oyster Card, spending on bank card, ANPR, CCTV, mobile phone etc is generally missed in all of that complaining...

I genuinely can't see Congestion Charge being extended at this time. It *will* happen at some point (whether the original CC or a fairer Road Pricing system or potentially just an increase in ULEZ cost) but the Government are under attack from all sides at the moment and while it's useful to them to pretend that it's all the fault of a Labour Mayor, that smokescreen won't hold for long.

[rupert james]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> malumbu Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Not a fan of extending the cc, it's a very

> blunt

> > instrument. We should have progressed with

> road

> > charging, something that comes up from time to

> > time but politically a very hot potato. The

> > fairest system, where you get charged for when

> you

> > drive and where you drive. But as an

> occasional

> > driver disappointed with successive governments

> > for not putting up fuel duty, the unholy

> alliance

> > of hauliers and farmers in 2000 put back the

> > environmental cause so much.

> >

> > Before you all dissolve into a puddle with rage

> > check out this article which gives you a great

> > perspective on road pricing. If we want to

> play

> > our part in tackling climate change we have to

> get

> > over this concept that we are entitled to drive

> > what we like, when we like, how we like and

> where

> > we like.

> >

> https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/road-pricing

> >

> > As an occasional user of public transport I'm

> > happy to subsidise the masses.

>

> Yeah agree with this. a more sophisticated road

> pricing system would be good (one which takes

> account of time of day, where you are driving, the

> type of vehicle etc.

Would you really feel comfortable having Khan in charge of this? God help us.

[JohnL]

rupert james Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Would you really feel comfortable having Khan in

> charge of this? God help us.

You should give reasons why you think he would be worse than anybody else (Bailey etc)

I personally like rational pragmatic leaders so unless a major change happens I'll vote for him and expect him to win.

[JohnL]

The Mayoral contest isn't a vote on LTNs as theres more than that but Khan seems to be pulling further ahead (a lot of young Londoners support him)

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/sadiq-khan-has-22-point-lead-in-new-london-mayor-opinion-poll/

[rupert james]

If someone is in charge of a monopoly and still manages to lose a fortune you have to wonder if he is capable.

Please dont say its the government fault.

I've always wondered how a human rights solicitor would have the experience and knowledge to run what is in essence a very very large company without any hands on business experience.

This could also be applied to MP's in my opinion.

I know employ friends who tell you how great you are.

I certainly would not vote for him but people are free to vote for whoever they want.

[exdulwicher]

If someone is in charge of a monopoly and still manages to lose a fortune you have to wonder if he is capable.

Well so far Khan has managed not to spend ?53m on a non-existent Garden Bridge, not spend public money on having an affair with a "technology entrepreneur", not spend ?300,000 on unusable water cannons and not carry out expensive "studies" into blatantly unviable projects like Boris Island Airport so he's already doing far better than BJ.

Factor in the phasing out of the ?700m grant from Government and the fact that Khan inherited a ?1.5 BILLION deficit from Boris (which he's reduced by 71% since 2016). Some of the planned funding did depend on CrossRail being operational by now but ultimately, Khan has done FAR better at running TfL than Boris ever managed. TfL's deficit before Covid was down to about ?200 million which, compared to what he took on from Boris, is excellent management.

As usual with Boris, he's lying, lying some more and distracting as much as possible from his own multitude of failings.

TfL funding depends mostly on fares. That's collapsed by 90% and it would have done that under any Mayor in the world.

[Slocky]

"I've always wondered how a human rights solicitor would have the experience and knowledge to run what is in essence a very very large company without any hands on business experience."

Is this as opposed to the hands on business experience of a "journalist" sacked twice for making stuff up or just generally?

[malumbu]

Johnson in deed signed away the operational grant - you could argue of course why should London get the subsidies that other parts of the country didn't get. I'd argue that the sheer size of our network, and it's piecemeal development over 180 years makes it very difficult to manage. Much of this was developed by private companies who were more bothered about competing rather than coordinating (collaboration of course is a dirty word when it comes to many business people). The landowners not allowing a Grand Central Station didn't help either. Witness four off the top of my head terminus stations that are either comprised of two original stations - Victoria and London Bridge, and those with stations virtually next door - Waterloo, and those off the Euston Road. You didn't mention the folly of the new Routemasters either, maybe the new London taxis could similarly be criticised but not sure of the dynamic central government vs mayor or which of the latter it was.

[sally buying]

They are both as useless each other. We deserve better.

[exdulwicher]

There's also the ?24 million cost to taxpayers of the cable car in spite of BJ's promise that it was going to be funded by private finance.

The bendy bus saga.

BJ can't even claim credit for the cycle hire scheme, that was all sorted by Ken Livingstone.

Khan is far from useless - he's a bit uninspiring at times and possibly less ambitious than required (certainly there were several shovel-ready schemes good to go when he came into power which he then put on hold for more consultations and eventually dropped altogether) but he's generally a decent guy doing a broadly very successful job.

Obviously as a Labour Mayor under a Conservative Government he's had to put up with a lot of negative press too which hasn't helped his image or popularity ratings. Whereas for Boris, the job was solely about image and with no thought given to how much money he was spaffing against the wall on pointless vanity projects...

[Rockets]

I think it is clear that the Tories are using Covid as an underhand opportunity to disrupt the regional devolution model - they don't like it and are learning from their Russian friends that disruption is good - any disruption, just disrupt for disruptions sake. They are seeing Covid as an opportunity to put pressure on Labour regional leaders and to try and destabilise them. They are also using these regional battles as a way to take attention away from the mess they are making of the overall handling of the crisis.

Anyone in leadership during the Covid crisis is under huge pressure and will likely not be leading out of the other side of it (except perhaps Jacinda Ardern who is geographically advantaged!).

Unfortunately politicians at all levels are as bad as each other.

[Sally Eva]

I worry about the idea that "they are all as bad as each other".

Surely it is our responsibility as voters (choosing for our children) to discriminate the bad from the worse. Over time our discrimination will raise the standard of politician put before us for choice.

If we give up the demand for integrity, honesty, and compassion in our politicians then we should not be surprised if their quality declines and these qualities are not offered to us.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"If someone is in charge of a monopoly and still manages to lose a fortune you have to wonder if he is capable."

This is a rather silly thing to say. COVID and COVID laws have decimated demand.

"I've always wondered how a human rights solicitor would have the experience and knowledge to run what is in essence a very very large company without any hands on business experience."

Government isn't a business any more than business is just government. Khan has 26 years' experience of government management in progressively more senior roles. He hasn't been a lawyer for 15 years.

"They are both as useless each other."

Khan hasn't been very inspiring and has made some mistakes (the Amy Lame appointment has been a disaster), but what you say is not right. Khan is a technocrat who has chugged along making modest wins. Johnson is a sociopath who corruptly obtained benefits for his lover and who set fire to many millions of pounds pursuing a totally futile "garden bridge" because his friend Joanna Lumley thought it was a jolly idea. The two mayors are not "equally useless".

[malumbu]

I saw Johnson perform a few times as Mayor and it was like a pantomime. The first time he announced that the two best cities in the world are NYC and London, and London is the best. This was after he'd made a big thing about working with the best cities in Europe such as Berlin and Paris. Definitely was not Europhobic. The second was when he announced the concept of the ULEZ when he did he did a 'sketch' about looking for central government, they are over there, no they aren't, oh yes they are....

But in those days he wasn't pm. Now PM question time is even more of a pantomime. Good post DKHB. Why can't the masses see through him. And please don't call him by his first name. Yes it can be a struggle.

[JohnL]

rupert james Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've always wondered how a human rights solicitor

> would have the experience and knowledge to run

> what is in essence a very very large company

> without any hands on business experience.

>

You don't need to know how to run it just be able to put in place those that can.

(and I know that is the Johnson defence) [edited to surname for Malumbu :)]

[Soylent Green]

rupert james Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > malumbu Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Not a fan of extending the cc, it's a very

> > blunt

> > > instrument. We should have progressed with

> > road

> > > charging, something that comes up from time

> to

> > > time but politically a very hot potato. The

> > > fairest system, where you get charged for

> when

> > you

> > > drive and where you drive. But as an

> > occasional

> > > driver disappointed with successive

> governments

> > > for not putting up fuel duty, the unholy

> > alliance

> > > of hauliers and farmers in 2000 put back the

> > > environmental cause so much.

> > >

> > > Before you all dissolve into a puddle with

> rage

> > > check out this article which gives you a

> great

> > > perspective on road pricing. If we want to

> > play

> > > our part in tackling climate change we have

> to

> > get

> > > over this concept that we are entitled to

> drive

> > > what we like, when we like, how we like and

> > where

> > > we like.

> > >

> >

> https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/road-pricing

> > >

> > > As an occasional user of public transport I'm

> > > happy to subsidise the masses.

> >

> > Yeah agree with this. a more sophisticated road

> > pricing system would be good (one which takes

> > account of time of day, where you are driving,

> the

> > type of vehicle etc.

>

> Would you really feel comfortable having Khan in

> charge of this? God help us.

Yes I would. Conversely, I feel very uncomfortable with a bunch of self-interested, rich, over-privileged scumbags with an agenda to enforce anything on Londoners. God help us that people still support this heinous government.

[Abe_froeman]

If the best defence you've got of the Mayor is that you don't like Boris either then it's a pretty poor show

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

That's true. A good thing no-one has said that.

[Pugwash]

Since none of the other candidates for London Mayor appear to have knowledge or experience in running a transport system, nothing will change.

If I recall correctly that Susan Kramer, who went onto become MP for Richmond, when she stood for GLA/Mayor - she at least had knowledge of the administration of transport systems as was her paid employment when she was working in USA.

[tiddles]

Well said exdulwicher. Khan does not want the extension to north and south circulars and he was not responsible for the tfl deficit. He was reducing it and then no one was travelling due to Covid. I understand Johnson has now actually retracted this lie but of course no everyone knows this.

[Penguin68]

and he was not responsible for the tfl deficit

Choosing as a political gesture not to put up fares for 4 years - when rail fares were rising by RPI and more - was clearly a Mayoral decision which left, in retrospect, the service comparatively underfunded (by I think about ?600 million - happy to stand corrected on that). Clearly the fall away of revenues as a function of Covid economic downturn could not have been forecast - but then intending to run the whole service unchanged is probably also a mistake - empty trains are fine now, when infection rates support that, but not in a post-Covid (or at least a 'living with Covid because of a vaccine program' world).

[JohnL]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If the best defence you've got of the Mayor is

> that you don't like Boris either then it's a

> pretty poor show

Maybe if a Tory, LD or Independent big hitter put their head above the parapet and ran for Mayor ?

A Ken Clarke type might get somewhere although Rory Stewert who claims to be in this wing pulled out. I notice Charlie Mullins was running :) None of them really big hitters IMHO. It's as if they decided they can't beat Khan this time round.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623