possible congetsion charge extension

[Chrishesketh]

Has anyone else heard that they want to extend the congestion charge to the north and south circular.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/sadiq-khan-and-shaun-bailey-rally-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

[KidKruger]

Yes, it's been discussed on here on and off the best part of a couple of years.

Gonna be fun seeing approx 2million vehicles get fined.

[exdulwicher]

It'll come sooner or later anyway but this is just Government sabre rattling at the moment and playing politics: Conservative Government vs Labour Mayor.

Won't happen now not least because it would take months of planning, installation and implementation and would cost millions.

[JohnL]

Yes - its said to be part of the latest TFL bailout conditions imposed by central Government on TFL.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Typical anti-car eco-extremism from the... ... Tory Brexit Party. Glad to see that drivers' rights are being stood up for by...Sadiq Khan.

[Penguin68]

Interestingly, if we are to have a daily congestion charge imposed on us willy-nilly if we live within the North and South Circular (and keep our cars there, and why wouldn't we) and if we are to have our travel concessions removed, and if we are to live in an area so poorly served by public transport, hilly and far from town - well I suspect I will be using my car (as a pensioner) a great deal more than previously, when I tried to use public transport a lot. If it costs me no more (other than petrol) to get to a station than it does to get to Central London - then I will be driving. At my age and vulnerability sitting in my own car, even in a jam, will take no longer, and be a lot safer, than travelling with the mask-less public (today I estimated between 2% and 5% of passengers had no mask, or didn't think noses counted).

If you need a car at all, and I do, then you may as well make full use of it, if you are to be charged for using it at all. Why would you do anything else?

[KidKruger]

Thing is, how is it OK for a Govt to specify that people should buy diesel cars (because they're / were seen as better for the envt) then tell them their cars will now incur a daily penalty for just parking, as they always have, on their own street.

If half of London has bought cars the Govt advised them to, it's not OK to suddenly change course and tell those people who followed the guidelines they're now wrong. While somehow spectacularly making ?millions in penalising those car owners.

This doesn't instil (as if any were possible these days..) much trust in the Govt.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1) this isn't supposed to be a policy that makes sense. It's supposed to be a policy that screws over Sadiq Khan and doesn't cost anything.

2) the government didn't specify that people should buy diesel cars

3) the science around diesel has changed since the diesel boom of the 2000s. Non-diesel technologies have got better and cheaper.

4) the congestion charge is the same for normal hybrid, petrol and diesel cars. In a couple of years there will be no discounts for ultra efficient hybrids.

5) when the congestion charge was introduced and then expanded - people who'd parked for free had to pay. That's how the congestion charge works!

[NewWave]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interestingly, if we are to have a daily

> congestion charge imposed on us willy-nilly if we

> live within the North and South Circular (and keep

> our cars there, and why wouldn't we) and if we are

> to have our travel concessions removed, and if we

> are to live in an area so poorly served by public

> transport, hilly and far from town - well I

> suspect I will be using my car (as a pensioner) a

> great deal more than previously, when I tried to

> use public transport a lot. If it costs me no more

> (other than petrol) to get to a station than it

> does to get to Central London - then I will be

> driving. At my age and vulnerability sitting in my

> own car, even in a jam, will take no longer, and

> be a lot safer, than travelling with the mask-less

> public (today I estimated between 2% and 5% of

> passengers had no mask, or didn't think noses

> counted).

>

> If you need a car at all, and I do, then you may

> as well make full use of it, if you are to be

> charged for using it at all. Why would you do

> anything else?

Totally agree 100%!

[ali2007]

Has anyone else noticed that the current congestion charge zone omits some of the wealthiest areas in london - Chelsea, Knightsbridge etc. Does anyone know if the new proposals now include those neighbourhoods?

[Sally Eva]

Those areas were excluded by Boris Johnson when he was mayor (it was one of his campaign promises)

They would be included in the government-proposed extension to the north and south circulars. Boris Johnson is PM.

My guess would be that some wise guy sees it as a way to

a) raise lots of money and come closer to pollution targets

b) blame their political opponents

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Kensington and Chelsea also have some of the worst air, worst congestion and highest car use in the whole of London.

[Sally Eva]

Re de-funding the freedom passes. I don't entirely understand what's being suggested here.

These are funded by local councils.

There is a TfL pass for over 60s which runs to pension age. Maybe that's what's being threatened?

[Pugwash]

In some local areas, pensioners paid an annual fee of around ?25 to get their free travel pass. My father who lived in Sussex did this when his eyesight failed and he could not drive. He lived in a village which was 8 miles to nearest town and in the late 90s/early 2000s, the return fare was ?9 by bus which ran every half hour.

Not sure what the procedure is now that Freedom passes can be used all over UK.

Not sure about removing free travel for under 18s- we had to get a weekly bus pass for our girls when they went to secondary school. The argument for removing it would be to stop youngsters hopping on bus for a couple of stops.

[Sally Eva]

OTOH the bus pass for teenagers means they can always get home, no matter where or what they have got themselves into

[Nigello]

I think it would be reasonable to charge most Freedom pass holders a small amount each year if the alternative is having no free pass. ?20-30? Those on pension credit or who have another marker for reduced means wouldn?t pay. Likewise, how about a ?10-15 charge for young people, waived if parents are in receipt of certain amount of benefits. It?d be better if it were not chargeable but times are harder than usual.

[first mate]

You are charged ?10 annually for the over 60 pass.

[Sally Eva]

That's new (ish). I didn't pay for mine.

The costs will be rising as the OAP age rises because the over-60s pass fills the gap until the oap Freedom pass.

The trouble with means-testing is that it can be more expensive than not ie the admin associated with the means test out weighs any saving.

[first mate]

You have to pay a tenner each year to prove your address before pass is renewed.

[seenbeen]

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In some local areas, pensioners paid an annual fee

> of around ?25 to get their free travel pass. My

> father who lived in Sussex did this when his

> eyesight failed and he could not drive. He lived

> in a village which was 8 miles to nearest town and

> in the late 90s/early 2000s, the return fare was

> ?9 by bus which ran every half hour.

> Not sure what the procedure is now that Freedom

> passes can be used all over UK.

>

> Not sure about removing free travel for under 18s-

> we had to get a weekly bus pass for our girls when

> they went to secondary school. The argument for

> removing it would be to stop youngsters hopping on

> bus for a couple of stops.

Paying for bus fares also encourages people to look closer to home for a school so that their child/teen can walk

[Penguin68]

Paying for bus fares also encourages people to look closer to home for a school so that their child/teen can walk

Well, absolutely, convenience and the cost of a bus fare trumps the schools facilities, teaching quality, 'fit' with your children's needs and reputation any time! At least it means the employed middle class can afford to send their children to the best state schools, regardless of the bus fares. Which is only right.

[ctovey]

Its not always possible for a child to go to school within walking distance of home. My grand daughter was turned down for all the primary schools close to her home. If her parents hadn't been able to drive her to the school she was eventually allocated, it would have meant a two bus journey of nearly an hour each way.

[Siduhe]

With the possible extension of the Congestion Charge to the South Circular back in the news this morning (confirmed to be a UK Government condition of any longer term bailout of TfL) I thought I would check how much of ED would be in the resident's discount zone.

What I didn't appreciate, and which hasn't been publicised at all, is that the resident's discount has also been suspended to any new entrants as part of the earlier package of measures - so if this extension did go ahead, it would involve all of us paying full price congestion charge to drive in and out (south) of ED. What I can't work out is whether journeys within the zone would be chargeable too or whether it is only driving in and out of the zone. Any one know?

Someone said on one of the other threads that this looked like a really smart long game by the Government to put Labour voting areas under strain and drive down support for other parties. If this is seriously the plan, I'm starting to think that might actually be true. It's a pattern, for sure.

For balance, it would also do more to drive down car journeys in our area than any LTN, but as usual it would be the less well off people in our area who would suffer the most.

[tedfudge]

They are also going to increase our

Council tax again to help fund

TFL I dont even use public transport as I

Work nights and drive to work and use my car

For work. More money coming out

Of our pockets when we are

All struggling during covid 19

[malumbu]

Not a fan of extending the cc, it's a very blunt instrument. We should have progressed with road charging, something that comes up from time to time but politically a very hot potato. The fairest system, where you get charged for when you drive and where you drive. But as an occasional driver disappointed with successive governments for not putting up fuel duty, the unholy alliance of hauliers and farmers in 2000 put back the environmental cause so much.

Before you all dissolve into a puddle with rage check out this article which gives you a great perspective on road pricing. If we want to play our part in tackling climate change we have to get over this concept that we are entitled to drive what we like, when we like, how we like and where we like. https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/road-pricing

As an occasional user of public transport I'm happy to subsidise the masses.