Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

> (do stop using filtered - it's not coffee

> and it makes you look a bit blinkered!!)

The road is only closed at one end to through motor traffic. It's open to motorised access and open to through non-motorised traffic. Closed is not the right word. Filtered is.

[Dulwichgirl82]

Well the nursery seems to think it is if you look at their twitter feed. It?s on the corner of Matham grove so yes I think the closures significantly effect them and would imagine most children get there on foot, all of whom have to go down either edg/matham and experience the pollution pushed into their play areas.

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Also you comment that it would be a ?disaster

> for

> > charter north? but it?s ok for a nursery to

> have

> > cars packed outside it, which it didn?t before

> the

> > closures?

>

> Well, it depends whether you think the nursery

> traffic is a result of Melbourne Grove no longer

> being used as a cut through between two main

> roads. I suspect we might disagree. I also wonder

> how many kids are walked to the nursery (forgive

> me i don't know which one you're referring to)

> along Melbourne Grove - I don't know.

>

> What I do know is that the north end of Melbourne

> Grove used to be regularly blocked. I also saw

> more than one road rage incident on that stretch

> because people couldn't pass. It also used to

> cause problems at the junction with EDG. There are

> many, many kids milling about on that stretch now

> that the school has opened. So yes, I do suspect

> there would be problems.

[Metallic]

Closed until late Sunday but more likely Monday.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> They are closed though.

>

> They have signs on them that say "Road Closed".

> Suggest you drive along Grove Vale or Dulwich

> Village and have a look.

>

> Before they were closed they had other signs

> warning of the dates on which the closures would

> take place.

The north side of Trafalgar Square is an example of a road which was closed (some years ago now).

Carlton avenue is not closed. You can drive your car down it if you don't believe me (assuming you have one).

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's a petty point perhaps, but with the claims that 'roads are being closed' and that 'people want to ban cars', being bandied about - it feels necessary to inject a little reality into the discourse. We have, I think, just 4 streets in ED which are still open to cars, but which can no longer be used as a short cut from one main road to another.

[Rockets]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

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> > (do stop using filtered - it's not coffee

> > and it makes you look a bit blinkered!!)

>

> The road is only closed at one end to through

> motor traffic. It's open to motorised access and

> open to through non-motorised traffic. Closed is

> not the right word. Filtered is.

Per Abe - they're closed. That's why the council labels them as such with big red signs that say ROAD CLOSED. And as you will know from your highway code a big red sign is a warning sign - so it is warning you the road is closed.....;-)

You can call them what you like but per the council and the highway code the roads are closed.....

[first mate]

How odd, I don?t believe I have ever noticed Melbourne north regularly blocked or lots of road rage incidents and over the years I have been up down frequently.

[legalalien]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Rockets Wrote:

> -----------

>

> > So then, by default, you must recognise that

> the

> > closure (do stop using filtered - it's not

> coffee

> > and it makes you look a bit blinkered!!) of the

> DV

> > junction is having a major effect on other

> roads

> > due to the closure of the A205?

>

> The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered.

> Every street can be driven on and to. Residents

> can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., it?s

> just not possible to drive straight through from

> one main road to the next. There is no journey

> which cannot be done by car as a result of the

> LTNs (although routes may be less direct), so in

> no sense are roads 'closed'. Some roads do get

> closed / pedestrianised - but that's not what

> we're talking about here.

>

>

> > I had lunch on Lordship Lane today and the

> traffic

> > northbound was queuing all the way back to Mr

> > Lui's from the Goose Green roundabout.

>

> So how what's the point you're making? This would

> be helped by diverting traffic down court Lane,

> through the village, down EDG to Lordship Lane and

> then the Goose Green roundabout? Because I think

> most people would probably just go straight down

> Lordship Lane.

Depends where they are going. If heading towards Herne Hill it would help considerably.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I?m not sure who would be heading north down LL to the goose green roundabout for herne hill?

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rockets Wrote:

> -----------

>

> > So then, by default, you must recognise that

> the

> > closure (do stop using filtered - it's not

> coffee

> > and it makes you look a bit blinkered!!) of the

> DV

> > junction is having a major effect on other

> roads

> > due to the closure of the A205?

>

> The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered.

> Every street can be driven on and to. Residents

> can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., it?s

> just not possible to drive straight through from

> one main road to the next. There is no journey

> which cannot be done by car as a result of the

> LTNs (although routes may be less direct), so in

> no sense are roads 'closed'. Some roads do get

> closed / pedestrianised - but that's not what

> we're talking about here.

>

>

> > I had lunch on Lordship Lane today and the

> traffic

> > northbound was queuing all the way back to Mr

> > Lui's from the Goose Green roundabout.

>

> So how what's the point you're making? This would

> be helped by diverting traffic down court Lane,

> through the village, down EDG to Lordship Lane and

> then the Goose Green roundabout? Because I think

> most people would probably just go straight down

> Lordship Lane.

Do you know anything about the road layout of Dulwich? Do you not think that some of the traffic coming down Lordship Lane today might be trying to go west but can't because the A205 is closed....surely by closing one of the only ways to get west from Lordship Lane that forces more traffic down towards the Goose Green roundabout and EDG - thus creating tailbacks along Lordship Lane.........

[Dulwichgirl82]

Agree with this and I used to walk down regularly.

It was also a Schrodinger?s traffic:Simultaneously awful requiring the road closure but has since entirely disappeared since the temporary measures causing no traffic displacement apparently.

rst mate Wrote:

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> How odd, I don?t believe I have ever noticed

> Melbourne north regularly blocked or lots of road

> rage incidents and over the years I have been up

> down frequently.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@Rockets - what happened to the road on the north side of Trafalgar Square?

[legalalien]

Also: I think the reality of the discourse is that almost everyone on here thinks some measures are needed. It's just that many oppose the exact nature of the current ones on the basis that they weren't properly thought through in a joined up manner (as one of the councillors has expressly acknowleged) and are having an unacceptable and disproportionate negative effect on some residents (including schools) and road users - motorists, cyclists and pedestrians - on EDG particular. A different set of measures is needed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Which measures?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:

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> Agree with this and I used to walk down

> regularly.

>

> It was also a Schrodinger?s traffic:Simultaneously

> awful requiring the road closure but has since

> entirely disappeared since the temporary measures

> causing no traffic displacement apparently.

Who specifically has said traffic has entirely disappeared and there has been no displacement?

[Penguin68]

The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered. Every street can be driven on and to. Residents can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., it?s just not possible to drive straight through from one main road to the next.

I'm sorry, this is the definition of a cul-de-sac - often marked with 'No Through Road'. True - it's not actually what we often refer to rudely as ' a gated community' but it is the next best thing. THE ROAD IS CLOSED TO THROUGH TRAFFIC (pardon for shouting). A 'filter' suggests that you can pass through, but although pedestrians and bikes I suppose can - 4 wheeled vehicles can't. They are not 'filtered' they are blocked. The road (as a road, as opposed to a pavement or cycle track) is closed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lots of people used to walk down Melbourne Grove to the station each day / evening (pre COVID... remember that!) and I?m sure some at least will remember how often it got blocked because (usually a Jewsons lorry or similar) would not be able to pass traffic trying to come the other way, or there would be someone blocking the junction with EDG / misjudging the turn. But it?s not worth debating. Some will swear blind that congestion didn?t exist pre- LTN, in the same way that they?ll claim the closure of the south circular would barely have been noticed 6 months ago.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Agree with this and I used to walk down

> > regularly.

> >

> > It was also a Schrodinger?s

> traffic:Simultaneously

> > awful requiring the road closure but has since

> > entirely disappeared since the temporary

> measures

> > causing no traffic displacement apparently.

>

> Who specifically has said traffic has entirely

> disappeared and there has been no displacement?

No body. There are more straw men on this thread than a Worzel Gummage convention

[Earl Aelfheah]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered.

> Every street can be driven on and to. Residents

> can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., it?s

> just not possible to drive straight through from

> one main road to the next.

>

> I'm sorry, this is the definition of a cul-de-sac

> - often marked with 'No Through Road'. True - it's

> not actually what we often refer to rudely as ' a

> gated community' but it is the next best thing.

> THE ROAD IS CLOSED TO THROUGH TRAFFIC (pardon for

> shouting). A 'filter' suggests that you can pass

> through, but although pedestrians and bikes I

> suppose can - 4 wheeled vehicles can't. They are

> not 'filtered' they are blocked. The road (as a

> road, as opposed to a pavement or cycle track) is

> closed.

The road is not closed to cars though. There is a filter, which stops motor vehicles from using it as a cut through. Bikes and pedestrians can pass through (unlike a cul-de-sac), hence the fact it is referred to as 'filtered'. A road which has been closed (such as north side of Trafalgar Square, or many a town high street) does not allow cars access.

If people insist Calton Avenue has been closed though, then they presumably would not be concerned if you couldn't access it at all, because... what's the difference?

I suspect they would.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The road is closed to *motorised* through traffic. Shouting doesn't make you right. It makes you look hysterical.

[first mate]

HahaHa, Shroedinger?s traffic. Love it.

Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agree with this and I used to walk down

> regularly.

>

> It was also a Schrodinger?s traffic:Simultaneously

> awful requiring the road closure but has since

> entirely disappeared since the temporary measures

> causing no traffic displacement apparently.

>

>

> rst mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > How odd, I don?t believe I have ever noticed

> > Melbourne north regularly blocked or lots of

> road

> > rage incidents and over the years I have been

> up

> > down frequently.

[first mate]

P68 is the very last poster I think anyone would describe as hysterical, but keeping things personal rather than coming up with credible arguments does you no favours DKHB.

[first mate]

Of course there were occasional road blocks, there are in many streets, it happens. However, I genuinely never noticed this to be a regular thing...not to the point it would be a real issue. Ditto frequent road rage incidents. It honestly does feel like you and I have been regular users of a completely different road rahrahrah.

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lots of people used to walk down Melbourne Grove

> to the station each day / evening (pre COVID...

> remember that!) and I?m sure some at least will

> remember how often it got blocked because (usually

> a Jewsons lorry or similar) would not be able to

> pass traffic trying to come the other way, or

> there would be someone blocking the junction with

> EDG / misjudging the turn. But it?s not worth

> debating. Some will swear blind that congestion

> didn?t exist pre- LTN, in the same way that

> they?ll claim the closure of the south circular

> would barely have been noticed 6 months ago.

[KidKruger]

Yeah 68 is cool, so back-off with the jibes.

[Metallic]

Just had a walk down to DV. The sight of a car transporter coming down College Road, round the traffic island and then turning in to Gallery Road, to presumably get back to where he started, was extraordinary. Everyone pipping their horns, people shouting through their car windows, and then thank goodness, to get back to the peace and tranquillity of that pollution-free road, Court Lane.