Realistic cost of living in London with family of 4

[AnnieC]

Hi everyone

We?re an Australian family of 4, looking to relocate internationally to Dulwich or surrounds early in the new year.

My husband was offered a job two weeks before covid hit. So after months of waiting, and working through the process, it now looks like it might happen.

But, we?re really struggling to approximate the monthly cost of living in London.

I?d like to estimate a monthly budget.Would anyone be willing to share (privately?) how much per month you think is needed for a young family of 4 to live a comfortable life in London?

I?m also needing some guidance on things like rent, transport, utilities + living costs.

- Do you think we?ll need a car? Any tips on best locations to live for shortest commute to Old street?

- Childcare prices seem to range incredibly, how does that work?

- We?d like 4 bedrooms + garden. Are there any pockets near Dulwich/adjacent areas with good state schools that are slightly less rent than smack bang in the middle of Dulwich Village (assuming this is higher)?

I have looked on numbeo.com - but the references for our own home city are quite off...so I?m not assuming it?s accurate for London either!

Kids are 1yo + 4yo, and we?d need 2-3 days care. We use Au Pairs in Aus. Husband will be working near Old Street. We?re planning on local primary schools rather than private.

[Pugwash]

I would imagine if you are looking for a 4 bed rental property in South East London you are looking around ?2000 per month. Child Minders charge anything from ?7 per hour, nurseries around ?50 per day and generally have long waiting lists

Council tax for a 4 bed house is likely to be around ?1599 - ?2000 per year depending on area.

Judging from own experience with family, with 2 children assuming you do not purchase very expensive food, you will probably have to allocate a budget of at least ?3000 a month but this obviously be influenced by housing, transport and utility costs.

Cheaper areas near ED - Forest Hill/Sydenham, Penge. If you want to move out further - Orpington is quite good having a variety of housing stock.

[AnnieC]

Thanks pugwash! So appreciate you time + response.

If rental is 2000+ (most we?ve seen are more like 2500+) and childcare is 1200 (50 a day x 3days x 2 kids)

Plus 3k for all the other things...that gets us close to 6500/7000 per month.

This is still a fair bit lower than the calculations based on online numbers!

[tomskip]

If you are renting a 4 bed detached house then I think that will be more than ?2000 per month. Have a look on the property website Right Move to give you an idea. Try the postcodes SE22, SE15, SE23 maybe. Dulwich Village is SE21 and you are right, it will be a lot more expensive.

Having said that, Old Street underground station is on the northern line so if he wants to travel by tube he would have a more direct journey if you look in south west London in Balham, Clapham, Stockwell, Oval or Kennington (although, again, these areas are more expensive for housing precisely because of the proximity to the tube).

South east London isn't served by the underground. From East Dulwich he could take the overground train to London Bridge and change to the underground there but the trains get absolutely jam packed at commuting times.

East Dulwich to Old Street is quite a long commute by bike or bus.

If you are paying ?2,500 per month in rent and childcare for 2 children for 3 days a week, I'd estimate you'd need a combined income of quite a bit over ?100,000 pa to be comfortable. ?100,000 with tax and national insurance deducted equates to about ?5,500 per month net. I don't know if he'd pay national insurance, but this is just to give you a rough idea.

[Ginster]

I just walked past an estate agents and saw a 4 bed house for ?3000k a month! So it will vary but hopefully ?2k is more like it for you. Re the commute, you can get the Overground from Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill to Shoreditch High Street and then it isn't that far of a walk to Old Street. (Or as said, London Bridge then Northern Line).

Shopping can really vary as ours has shot up now we're all at home a lot more(!) but we can probably lower eating out budget at the same time. Family of 4 here and weekly shop can vary from ?80 to ?120 depending (occasionally buy kids clothes in supermarket so spikes up the cost).

Childcare is pricey, you can try so may different options though to work out what is best. Childminder, Nursery, Nanny (or Nanny share to lower costs). We started with a childminder then nursery and it gets steadily cheaper as they get older so something to think about that you might have a larger hit initially. Also once they're in school that is a big chunk of spend you lose so it's only for a few years.

Car - that is totally down to your lifestyle. Ours is mostly used for weekly shop and visits to parents (parent visits would be so much effort and longer by public transport). Prior to the car I used to have a pull along trolley and get the bus home from the supermarket so it's possible (but wasn't shopping for 4 then!).

Houses - we are SE15 but 30 seconds from SE22 so you can try to get clever by being close to where you want but just outside. If you join "East Dulwich Mums" on Facebook you occasionally see people putting their properties on there before trying estate agents so you never know you could get lucky.

From what I hear from friends in Oz it's pretty expensive there so hopefully you'll find you're going in the right direction!

[Froglander]

You should look in areas on the Overground East London Line, as Ginster mentioned - As well as Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill, look at Brockley, Forest Hill, Honor Oak, Sydenham, Penge and Crystal Palace.

There are a lot of budget supermarkets like Lidl, Aldi and Iceland.

Other supermarkets like Waitrose, Sainsbury, Asda and Tesco all do home delivery, and that includes Iceland.

There are car clubs here to rent a car for use if you don?t have one at first.

Look into the use of Oyster cards on Transport for London on the TFL website - Transport for London.

www.tfl.gov.uk

[Lemming]

I doubt if there's a single 4 bed house to be had in SE22 for anything close to ?2k/pcm (?!)

Even the modest/smaller 4 beds must be more like 2.5k - 3k

Larger/extended ones 3.5 - 4 (and above)

[PeckhamNicola]

What about North London? E.g. Winchmore Hill to old street, 4 direct trains per hour, takes under half an hour. Palmers Green / Alexandra palace are en route, the latter would only be 20 mins to old street. Schools have more outdoor space.

[AnnieC]

Thanks everyone - great context and thinking.

We?re pretty sure we want to be in SouthEast. The few ppl we do know live in brixton + Emephant&castle + Pekham. The fast train from Sth East to elephant or London bridge looked like it could be an option. Is 45 mins commute realistic?

It?s sounding more like $6500+ per month is about right. Going up incrementally pending rent (which sounds like it varies understandably extensively!)

It also sounds like childcare/school is a bit of a consideration. I understand kids aged 3+4 get 15 hours for free. Is this offered at all childcare centers?

Our daughter will be 5 on aug 20 next year. So here she would be going into kindergarten Jan 2021 (aged 4.5), then starting primary school aged 5.5 in Jan 2022. Some kids are almost 6 before they start their allocated school yeah. Many families hold kids back till they are 6 deliberately. And the beautiful 4yo kindergarten year is viewed as one of the most important preparation years.

How do school intake on 1 Sep work for kid?s born in the UK summer? Someone told me some kids start school in the UK at 4!!!! (This cant be right?) surely this is a prep/kindy/pre-school type year? So our August daughter would start school the following September in 2022 aged (just) 6.

[Beulah]

Pre-Lockdown me and my wife cycled to City area from Peckham every day by bike whatever the weather.

Takes abut 30mins door to door.

I personally wouldn't bother with public transport unless you have to use it for some reason.

[Ginster]

Re school. Yes you start the September after you are 4 so she would have just started Reception here last month. It's a very play-based year with learning and fun. If you have a late summer born you can apply to have them defer, they would then start Reception the following September. I know someone who deferred as premature twins born 29th August. Another August baby deferred but then he matured so much over summer he then joined school in the 2nd week (luckily there was space). Germany don't start til 7, everywhere is different. Legally here they don't have to start til they are 5 but majority go with the Sept after 4 intake as that's what the UK does.

[redjam]

As Ginster says, the Reception year in school is nothing like formal school. It's generally completely separate (separate outdoor space etc) and very child-focused and play-based. I don't know anyone who deferred and my own August-born child came on leaps and bounds that year.

Good luck with the move! Can't believe you're voluntarily coming from an Australian spring into a miserable British autumn/winter - can I swap with you please?!

[AnnieC]

Hey Redjam + Ginster - thanks for your thoughts. So useful to have local context. Separate (separate outdoor space etc) and very child-focused and play-based sounds very much like our kindergarten year! So that's put my mind at ease! With the flipped seasons/school year and the earlier intake....I was worried she would miss both kindergarten + reception....and go straight into year 1! with no foundation years!!

[Pugwash]

Above is all good advice and people are more in tune to current rental prices than I am. I was basing on advice some years ago by estate agent for our own 4 bed house they quoted ?1500 pm. Since then ED has become more desirable and housing costs have risen.

If I remember - Orpington goes to London Bridge/Victoria as my granddaughter uses this line frequently.

[bonaome]

Good luck with it all AnnieC.

Rent is going to be your biggest outlay, so as tomskip says I would use https://www.rightmove.co.uk/ to have a look around. You can set the search for South East London and filter by property type, minimum beds. maximum price etc. If you could go down to 3 beds it would make quite a difference in price and perhaps not that much difference to your lifestyle. Just a thought.

A car will probably make your life significantly easier. If only for ferrying the kids to and from activities. Obviously it will depend on exactly where you live and if you're all stay at home sorts - but for most SE London families I would say a car is a necessity. You can budget by having a look on https://www.autotrader.co.uk/ On our narrow Victorian Streets most cars get quite a few dents and scratches. We've generally gone for a 2-3 year old Ford with reasonable milage and then not worried too much about the paintwork.

The biggest supermarkets where you could budget a monthly shop would be tesco.com and sainsbury's.co.uk

For transport costs have a look here https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares?intcmp=54646

If you are going to be going to Old Street 5 days a week, you're better off with a monthly pass.

For anything less, you can just pay as you go with any contactless bank card and you get all the benefits of price capping etc. This is useful for info

https://visitlondon.com/traveller-information/getting-around-london/do-kids-need-an-oyster-card

[twright]

Hi Annie

Bit late coming to the party with my response, but my husband and I moved to London from Aus (Melbourne) two years ago. Our kids were 4 and 3 when we arrived.

I think others have covered off expenses pretty well (but defo 3-4k on a 4 bed house in Peckham or East Dulwich for monthly rent if you want a garden. We decided to go for a smaller place with no garden for significantly less rent, which we've kind of been regretting in lockdown! The original plan was that we'd travel out of London most weekends but that hasn't quite panned out. That said, the South East has great parks and we've spent most weekends this year exploring local parkland). While living in inner Melbourne was expensive, we've found that London still feels like less value for money when it comes to rent, public transport and eating out. We decided not to buy a car because of the parking and transport hassles (extended ultra low emission zone charge comes into force in October 2021 so def worth keeping that in mind if planning to buy a car).

We didn't encounter childcare costs as my 3 year old was offered a place at the local school nursery where my 4 year old started school in Reception (first year of school here). 3 year olds get 15 hours of free childcare and she attended during school hours on Mondays-Wednesdays (she even had to wear the school uniform and 3 definitely seemed far too young to be in school, but she loved it and it really helped her prepare for Reception). There's lots of lovely schools in East Dulwich - our girls are at Goose Green Primary School which is a 3-4 minute walk from the East Dulwich train station.

If you're looking for a 45 minute commute to Old Street, I'd take a look at places on the Northern Line as a direct tube will be the quickest way to get there. Otherwise, maybe East Dulwich or Peckham Rye which take you into London Bridge fairly quickly and you can then connect to Old Street via the tube.

Do feel free to PM me with any queries, but otherwise all the very best. Exciting times ahead!

[legalalien]

Depending on where you have to get to near Old Street, basing yourself in Herne Hill and getting the Thameslink to Farringdon (then walking) could also be a thing - that's a 16 min trip on the train.

[alex_b]

AnnieC Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey Redjam + Ginster - thanks for your thoughts.

> So useful to have local context. Separate

> (separate outdoor space etc) and very

> child-focused and play-based sounds very much like

> our kindergarten year! So that's put my mind at

> ease! With the flipped seasons/school year and the

> earlier intake....I was worried she would miss

> both kindergarten + reception....and go straight

> into year 1! with no foundation years!!

She?ll start part way through the year in reception if you arrive pre-July. There are usually a few leavers/joiners in each school year so you may be lucky even with the more popular schools. School selection is based on distance so that could also be a factor for house selection.

Also year one is still pretty informal/play focused, at least in our experience.

[motorbird83]

As you've heard the 5 year old won't have any childcare costs except wrap around care after school as all the state primaries in the area are good and most aren't oversubscribed due to expansions and new openings in the last few years. The big exceptions to this are Harris ED and Heber which do have fairly tight catchment areas. Look at the Starting School in Southwark brochure and you'll see many schools offered a place to all on time applications. The brochure at the link has lots of useful information:

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/schools-and-education/school-admissions/primary-admissions/about-primary-admissions

For your commute, depending on exactly where your husband will be working taking the London Overground (aka the Gingerline) to Shoreditch High street might be your best option rather than trying to get to Old Street underground station. You can catch direct trains there from Peckham Rye Station, Denmark Hill Station and Forest Hill Station and depending on where you house is a 45 min commute is definitely possible. These areas all border East Dulwich so you can live in ED and commute via one of these stations or potentially locate in one of these neighbourhoods (Forest Hill is cheaper than ED and also has good schools).

Childcare for your 1 year old is going to be your biggest issue. The fact that you don't need a full time place will be a big help though and if you are willing to take a Monday and a Friday, which are the quietest days, then you might be able to snag something. I'd get in touch now with a few nurseries and get your name on the waiting lists. If your youngest will be turning 2 shortly after you arrive, you might be better off getting a place on the nurseries attached to one of the local private prep schools like Herne Hill School, Rosemead, or Oakfield and then applying for a state school nursery place for your youngest when they turn 3.

As others have said, Rightmove will give you the best idea regarding budget for housing but ?3,000 or more will probably be required.

How much you spend is like asking how long is a piece of string. Even excluding childcare costs, housing costs, holidays, clothes, gifts, parties etc your budget would need to factor in how much you like to go out, what you like to do, what type of insurance / subscriptions you need and want, how much you spend on beauty treatments etc etc etc. You'd need to give some indication of your lifestyle for anyone to really give advice on this.

The neighbourhood is very walkable and most of the things we do are on foot. Still, I don't know anyone who has two kids locally and doesn't have a car so I'd budget to get one. This is mostly for logistics on the weekend for things like swimming lessons and then running to a birthday party or ballet or whatever.

Good luck with the move!