KidKruger Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 About 8yrs ago I posted on EDF some pics of something I had found in the Thames, hoping for an answer as to it's purpose and age.I can't find that post now, so now I'm posting new photos with a question to all - what is this and how old ?Info:- made of stone by looks of it- 10" diameter- 6" deep- the square hole in centre is 3 1/4" Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 More pics. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malumbu Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Looks like a small grinding stone, for a small windmill or watermill Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyorange Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Yes definately a millstone. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 It is too small for a millstone. My guess would be a grinding stone to sharpen tools. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diable rouge Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Don't millstones need a flat, smooth surface in order to grind properly?...https://www.dandelionstonetroughs.co.uk/millstones-for-sale/ETA: Are the grooves helical like a screw? If so could be a rope mooring of some kind. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 They do and they are usually far bigger than that. The other thing that occurred to me, looking at the grooves, is as some part of a pulley system, with the rope gripping in those side grooves. The beam going through it then in turn, turns something else. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 When I found it, with one edge sticking out of the mud, I thought it was the edge of a large stoneware jar.As I dug deeper I realised it was something else and the grooves around the side left me pondering.I did speculate whether it was some kind of maritime mooring block whereby it slotted over an upright wooden post and rested on the jetty, while ropes were tied around it and eroded the sides in that uneven way (no, DR, there's no helical groove).I then wondered if it could have been part of a pulley system, but why use stone as a material for a pulley I thought ?After that, I figured it may be the base of an ancient stone column, where horses/cattle had for an extended period of time been tethered and caused the erosion on the sides. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Half a stone age jammy dodger Obvious really Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 So I found out what this is by talking with a Thames finds specialist who advised me as follows.It's a late medieval grindstone. That is, a grindstone for blades such as knifes, axes, swords. It would have been hung on a square timber section which was attached to a turning apparatus to be spun by hand, probably a large handle to the side. It's fine-grain stone, typical of grindstones used then.How and why it ended-up in the Thames is a point of intrigue, possibly it fell from a jetty or boat, being probably too heavy to be washed around by the river so being found where it fell, in the mud.Glad to have got this resolved.I was watching a YT clip by this chap and, during his short about his 10x best Thames stone finds, he holds-up a fragment (about a quarter) of a grindstone similar to mine. I then realised what I probably had found. So I contacted him and he confirmed the find.I'll talk to MoL and see if they want it to display as part of the Thames finds section, I'll construct the wooden apparatus if they want.I see no photos or diagrams of grindstones with same features as the one I found, so I'll take the advice for now as it's the best I've had, but I've a nagging doubt it's not the entire story - until I learn more. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1458952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderwoman Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 It would work for sharpening gouge chisels on the rounded ridges. All the many blade sharpening grindstones I have seen retain a clear 90 degree edge, not the rounded one yours has. I would have thought that it had pulley grooves but the stone looks like it would abrade rope rather than the stone becoming polished by use. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Yeah I pondered this, ponderwoman, good point.I noticed 90 degree angles on other grinding stones on t?internet, too.I?ll ask the expert I was communicating with earlier.Perhaps there?s more yet to this story. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulwichFox Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 I am interested to know where on the Thames it was found. ? North or South Bank. I believe it has something to do with business activity, Part of Lifting gear.. Barge loading... Brewery ... Flour Mills .... ?? I Believe it is old. Foxy Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diable rouge Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Googling 'ancient stone pulley' doesn't throw up much beyond what the Egyptians used to build the pyramids, which makes sense with the loads they were shifting. For less strenuous lifting work it does seem a lot of effort to make a pulley from a lump of stone when it would've been much easier to do it in timber, which are far more common. I'm starting to think it's more likely to be the base of a decorative column... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulwichFox Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 The Square hole suggests some sort of drive shaft. Probably wooden. Did the shaft drive the stone or did the stone drive the shaft via pulleys. ?? The stone is very small ? Food for thought. Foxy Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Foxy,Found in the Thames at Rotherhithe, 100m West of the Surrey Docks Farm site.DulwichFox Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> I am interested to know where on the Thames it was> found. ?> > North or South Bank. I believe it has something> to do with business activity,> > Part of Lifting gear.. Barge loading... Brewery> ... Flour Mills .... ??> > I Believe it is old. > > Foxy Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1459581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diable rouge Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 How bridges were built in Central Europe during the Middle Ages...https://twitter.com/KiwiEV/status/1316493212605911040 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1460026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 That's fascinating. I was waiting for the stone column or something to appear and solve this mystery tho !! Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1460079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Great find. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1460083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diable rouge Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Spoiler alert! :)... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1460085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 I have contacted the expert again to ask specifically about the grooves (as pointed out by blahblah and ponderwoman) in the edge of the grind stone not resembling other (what seem to be) traditional grindstones used for sharpening blades.The fact that it's not a stroll finding the answer on the www I find interesting.Thanks for all replies so far. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1460128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianr Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 I did a lot of web searching at the time as well. I eventually came to the conclusion, which I still hold to, that those grooves/striations most closely resembled images of natural abrasion and erosion by wind or water, as in these examples:https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/weathered-rocks-beach-large-wind-water-yellow-sand-pacific-ocean-surf-51315541.jpghttps://image.slidesharecdn.com/weatheringanderosion-easier-130403080226-phpapp01/95/weathering-erosion-and-deposition3rd4th-grade-teach-1-638.jpghttps://image.slidesharecdn.com/weatheringanderosion-easier-130403080226-phpapp01/95/weathering-erosion-and-deposition3rd4th-grade-teach-24-638.jpghttp://www.passmyexams.co.uk/GCSE/physics/images/weathering_wind.jpgThe Thames is tidal where they were recovered, in't it, so it's fairly easy to imagine gradual wear from particles on or streaming over the river bed. But what did your expert say?[17/8/21 Nailed it. See attached.] Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/266139-what-is-this-mystery-find/#findComment-1514377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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