Dog attack in Dulwich Park this afternoon

[first mate]

WOD,

I'm pretty sure that many dog owners do treat fellow humans as well if not better than they do their dogs. I have little doubt that lonely and isolated people might themselves benefit from a pet and the kind of people who prefer animals over humans might themselves also be lonely and isolated without their furry companions. I think that dogs lift the spirits of many. I'm sure that you will have heard of PAT dogs, where suitable dogs are taken around care homes etc.. Dogs are also invaluable to those with a rnage of disabilities, who possibly benefit as much from their canine companions as they do human interventions.

That said, I'm sorry you have had a bad day and none of us like to skid in dog poo, infuriating and disgusting.

[TonyQuinn]

I was attacked by a dog last week on Peckham Rye Common. My view is that man and dog can no longer co-exist.

[first mate]

Tony Quinn,

That is serious. Can we have a description of the dog and owner and did you report it?

[TonyQuinn]

I don't remember the dog too much , was in the middle of a run and carried on. It was fairly small, luckily, so was no big deal.

[first mate]

Tony Quinn,

Did the dog actually make contact with you? Did it bite you? It'd be useful to know the detail of what happened and whether the owner was in sight and what they did? For a dog to actually 'attack' a person out of the blue is unusual and the owner of that dog needs to be aware how serious this is and take remedial action.

Becsbex, I'm wondering how Tilly is? Please let us know.

[ydrmdy]

I think if i was "attacked" by a dog i would pretty much remember what it looked like. Saying that, Chihauhau pups can give a nasty nip! Good thing you carried on running, could have ended terribly. :)

[Penguin68]

Young dogs (e.g. puppies) have (1) very sharp teeth and (2) a huge propensity to chase things and bite them - this is a natural part of their growing up but can be tedious -a runner in a park could be very tempting... It's really a 'play' behaviour - but I have received (and seen others receiving) quite serious nips as part of this. Ideally puppies should be kept on leads (even very long leads) if in public whilst this still forms part of their learning behaviour.

[the-e-dealer]

Attacked by a dog and kept on running. Wish I was so tough!

[Sarah9999]

The dog walking section in Dulwich Park is at the north or the park between Firemans Alley and Court Lane entrance. Everywhere else dogs should be on a short lead.

I am sorry to hear your dog was attacked and I do hope that it recovers fully, however I am not suprised this happened as the number of dogs not on leads in our parks is ridiculous.

Not everyone loves dogs, or even if they do they dont necessarily want them coming up to their picnics/children/ snapping at their heels or snffing around while trying to have a quiet walk with your other half, but unfortunately so many dog owners seem to think that everyone needs to love their dog as much as they do. I'm also pretty sure no one on here wants to step in the mess that so many leave behind them.

Ideally there would be much stricter policing of dogs off leads by the park keepers and also the number of dogs that one person can walk at one time. That way dogs won't attack other dogs and people that have genuine concerns about them roaming free will have their fears alleviated too. There are rules and signs in place, they are just not enforced.

It's not a difficult solution, all dogs need to be on short leads or long leads in dog excercise areas, designated play areas should be free from dogs, there should be heavy fines for dog fouling in parks and on the streets and the presumably its the park keepers role to enforce this withing the parks.

[first mate]

Sarah9999,

Dogs need to have some time offlead, so to ask for dog control orders where dogs in dog exercise areas are always kept on a long lead is not the way to go (see Animal Welfare Act, 2006). Dogs must be allowed off lead in certain sections of the park and they do need a degree of play with other dogs. It is however incumbent on owners to learn about dogs and how they interact and to be aware that not every adult dog will delight in a new puppy boucing all over them, that some dogs like a bit of space, many intact males will be less tolerant of other males etc.. There are plenty of decent dog training classes around to learn all this stuff.

However, I agree that around entrances, walkways and sections like the Japanese Garden, it is reasonable to ask dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead and I also fail to see why this is so regularly ignored by dog owners and walkers. It simply gives firepower to those like you that want dogs on a lead all the time.

With reference to Tony Quinn, I had assumed that because the word attack was used that some really aggressive behavior had taken place and bites were involved.

Nonetheless, even if the dog concerned was involved in some out of control play biting or inappropriate herding-type behavior it simply goes to show that a dog-friendly person's view of what constitutes real aggression/attack may be very different from the person who dislikes/fears/misunderstands dogs. Under the DDA a person only has to fear they will be attacked- perception is important. It should be a warning to us all as more and more people are asking for a tightening up on dog freedoms.

[BecsBex]

Thanks for your concern, first mate :) Tilly is very well. Took her to the vet yesterday and thankfully there were no serious injuries. The bite on her leg is smaller than I expected (it bled a lot, I thought)and the area's still sensitive today but her limp is all but gone. Took her back to Dulwich Park this morning and she wasn't happy on the lead so I let her off. She stayed closer to me than usual but on the whole was v brave indeed! :)

Womanofdulwich, was there any point in your passive aggressive comment other than to wind people up? Doesn't seem so. If you don't have anything helpful or even relevant to add, please don't bother. FYI you haven't caught me on a bad day - I just think your comment was ignorant and pointless.

Re dog licensing, I grew up in Australia and the dog license system is in place there. It's very effective. Shame it's not embraced over here. Perhaps it's a money thing - in Perth the parks are maintained/monitored by local council workers, part of whose job is looking out for unregistered dogs, problematic dogs, irresponsible owners etc. This includes handing out fines to owners who are caught avoiding cleaning up after their dogs. Bags are supplied by the council, attached to bins at several points around the park so that dog walkers have no excuse not to scoop the poop! It's a v effective system and aside from encouraging responsible dog ownership, it means everyone can use the public outdoor spaces without MUCH chance of stepping in something revolting. (It's not monitored in an insane BB way!) I get the impression that these sorts of schemes wouldn't be welcomed over here but it'a a shame, really - especially the lack of a dog license system.

[fuzzyboots]

I'm delighted Tilly is ok - if a little sore and wary. What a relief that must be for you.

We used to have dog licences which had to be bought from the Post Office annually I believe. However, the amount of money was desultory and they were abandoned- probably because they cost more to administer than the revenue gained.

Australia seems to be well sorted - and as a prospective dog owner, I'd welcome the system.

[LadyDeliah]

Sarah9999, the dog on lead signs in Dulwich Park have no legal force at all as there is no dog control order covering the park. So dog owners are entitled to walk their dogs off lead anywhere in the park.

[the-e-dealer]

And thats the mature thing to do.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lady delia - what are you talking about? By your standard any course of action or behaviour that is not explicitly fobidden by / written into law is an entitlement?

[the-e-dealer]

there are a lot of people like her. Be very afraid!

[first mate]

I'm sure that lady deliah was merely pointing out that the 'rules and regulations' referred to are actually requests and are currently not enforceable.

However, many dog owners do see that it is reasonable to comply with the request to keep dogs on a lead in certain areas of the park, at the very least this enables those who do not like dogs to enjoy the freedome of the park too.

[barriedalenick]

I ride my bike (slowly!) through DP every day and in recent months there seems to be lots more dogs that are off lead and out of control. I like dogs but I am not so fond of some of their owners - I have been chased by one dog and had two other run under my wheels. Naturally this was my fault and the dogs were completely blameless (accordin to the humans) - when I point to the signs about dogs on short leads they seem to get even more annoyed.

I emailed Southwark about this and the policy is stated as

"we do not issue fixed penalties for having dogs off leads, only for letting the dogs foul without pick up" - So it appears that all the notices and signs are just for fun.

"We can insist that dogs not under control to be put on a lead or in extreme cases the Liaison officer will take the owners details and on some occasions these involve the police"

My guess is that until someone gets seriously hurt by a dog they will not take it seriously..

Glad your dog is ok BecsBex

[first mate]

barriedalenick,

There are ceratinly dog owners who need to take more care in monitoring their dog's behaviour instead of wiaiting until they do something obnoxious like chasing a cyclist- generally the warning signs will be there some time before the dog actually goes for it.

However, just for balance, there are cyclists that treat the park like a race track and cycle at very high speed often coming from behind with no warning at all and I have had a few near misses when my dog has been on a lead! I think some cyclists are of the mind that if they can see the dog and owner then there is no problem since they can avoid no matter how fast they are going, excpet dogs and owners don't move in straight lines when in the park and cyclists should perhaps take that into account, especially when they are indulging in yellow jersey fantasies :)

It does sound as though you are more sinned against than sinning though.

[barriedalenick]

First Mate I agree with your comments about errant cyclists! Most dog owners in the park are fine and I always ride slowly but I have seen other cyslists ripping round the road like it is a track - they should get down to Herne Hill Velo!!

Have you ever seen the old couple in the red car who walk their dog. They drive round the road and the dog walks behind them. The dog looks very miserable!

[73jem]

Very interested in this discussion as I take my small grandchild to Dulwich Park sometinmes and I have noticed that there are now very few dogs on leads ---- I asked an owner why today and was told, as has been set out above, that the dog free areas no longer exist as the notices were successfully challanged by a cohort of dog owners.

Even the area round the cafe was this morning over-run with free range dogs, I suspect that word had got around among dog owners who are coming to the Park to enjoy their new freedom.

I do understand that most dogs are safe round children but fear to meet the exception. Are those of us who want to access the park with snall children going to get excluded by dogs and their owners. Who is more importan to society, dogs or children?

[tiddles]

The key is that everyone is considerate - unfortunately not always the case. As a dog owner it does nark me rather that despite the polite notice, there are loads of dogs off leads outside the cafe!! Also as first mate has mentioned there are a few cyclists who gun around the outside track - let alone dozy dogs, what on earth would they do if a toddler got in their path?

[73jem]

I've never had a problem keeping a toddler away from a cycle track in Dulwich Park and the roads are pretty safe if you keep an eye open; it is the random behaviour of the dog population which causes concern as it is impossible to predict events and therefore protect the child.

[first mate]

There is no excuse for having dogs offlead around the cafe.

For the record, there have never been dog free areas in the park= other than the fenced toddler area in the centre of the park. I had thought we were discussing dogs being kept on a short lead in sections of the park, not excluding them altogether.

I visit the park a lot and the toddlers section is always dog free.

I think one issue is that dog owners are probably the most consistent users of the park all year round and will be out walking the dog in all weathers, when most prefeer to stay in the warm and dry. In this sense I think that some dog owners might feel they have a claim on the whole of the park over those who are more fairweather visitors. I'm not condoning this but I think it explains why they let their dog off everywhere, because for certain periods of the year there is noone else around other than feloow dog walkers.

[73jem]

I don't think that anyone would wish to exclude dogs from the park; it is all a question of how best to share the space.

The fenced toddler area is great for physical exercise, but not for the exercise of the imagination. Unlike dogs, children need both of these things, and I find it astonishing and depressing that people think that a small fenced area of swings etc is all that toddlers need.

I had great times walking from the car park to the toddler area with my elder grand-daughter who is now at school. She used to wander at will finding flowers, looking for squirrels, playing hide and seek etc --- none of these kind of activities work in the toddler area and they are now excluded on the route by the proliferation of offlead dogs.

Surely it is reasonable to expect dog owners to keep their dogs on their leads along the path from the car park past the cafe [ and including the seating area there ] and on to the toddler area.