Giving up nappies at night time

[susyp]

I've posted before here about my daughter's recurrent "foo foo" infection! It's controlled now with cream but it definitely comes back if I don't use the cream.

The doctor has suggested that the fact she is still in nappies at night (and they get very wet) could be a factor, and one that we should be thinking about dealing with.

My daughter has generally been ahead developmentally on most things but at 4 years and 3 months shows absolutely no signs of being dry at night - in fact her nappies are absolutely soaked in the morning (she hardly goes to the toilet in the day so I am not sure whether it just all comes out at night!). So I am not sure how this attempt is going to go! I have already bribed her with the promise of a specific doll when she is dry at night, so she is up for the idea!

So with half term we are going to give a try at giving up night time nappies. A friend suggested two layers of waterproof mat and sheets- so in the middle of the night you can pull one layer off without having to completely remake the bed. And I will try and lift her when I go to bed (but she is pretty comotose in the night!). Any other tips from seasoned veterans?!

thank you!

Susypx

[KateW]

No other tips, I'm afraid, just delighted that someone else's daughter also has a 'foo foo'!

[sunbob]

We haven't tried it yet, but think will be using resources from this website when we do http://www.eric.org.uk/Bedwetting/info_bedwetting_wetting_parents

Some v interesting info, eg apparently a uti can be a reason for bed wetting, as can constipation. It also help you understand when children might be ready, or not to be dry at night.

[susyp]

thank you that is a good site. I hadn't thought about fear of the dark in terms of going to the toilet but that would be an issue which the site mentions - so will put her potty right next to her bed so she doesn't have to venture out into the dark (we have lamps on but that's not enough for her - she has 3 or 4 nightlights on in her room!!

susypx

[SBot]

Have you tried limiting drinks, last drink at tea time? Could she be allergic/irritated by the nappy, possible to look at a more natural nappy? Or when you lift her for the toilet, change her nappy??

You say she doesnt wee much during the day, maybe she needs more fluid to flush her system?

Hope she gets well soon x

[ClareC]

I stopped using nappies at night within a couple of weeks of my daughter being clean in the day. I bought some training pants which are effectively towling knickers that have a little more padding which we called night time knickers. Less mess if there is an accident but we have only ever had 2 accidents at night anyway - maybe its a case of having a nappy so using it whereas the trainer pants are not at all nappy like.

I used the absorbent pads you put under the sheet, you could then put another pad and sheet on top to save stripping the bed.

[keane]

With my two boys I went from nappies to training pants and then started lifting them to go to the loo just before I went to bed at around 11, they would normally have a wee almost in their sleep and then progressed from this to leaving a nightlight on near the bathroom so they eventually learnt to get up - hope this helps.

[Fuschia]

I don't think it's something they can consciously control, they need the hormone that reduces urine production while they sleep. I believe a drug can be prescribed if necessary to assist with this - but I don't think usually it's considered a problem till a child is past 7 or 8

If a child sleeps deeply, or bed wetting runs in the family, that's also a factor

Lifting a child when you go to bed yourself, and holding them over the toilet (they don't wake!) is moderately effective but doesn't actually help them with learning to wake at night themselves

Anyway, good luck

Potty by the bed (be prepared for it to get kicked over though!)

Double layer of sheets on the bed as suggested, good mattress cover, spare duvet, some thick towels to throw down of necessary

[The Nappy Lady]

As Fuscia says, getting dry at night is something that sadly you can't do much to assist.

Both my daughters were reliably dry by day at, or just before turning 2. However they were 4 before they managed to be dry at night. With daughter 1 both her Grandmothers were convinced they could get her dry at night but failed - despite daughter really wanting to be. Number 2 has been just the same. I didn't want them to get uptight about it so I've always tried to be encouraging without adding any pressure.

If you do lift them at night it is best to try to wake them enough that they walk to & from the loo themselves so are at least vaguely aware of what they are doing, otherwise they are just wearing in their sleep, so whilst their nappy may be drier in the morning you are not helping them get used to the concept of getting up & walking to the loo. I think eventually this can help, but they need to be ready anyway.

I know loads of children who were dry at night within days of potty training by day at 2, & plenty more who wore nappies day & night til 3. They all get there in the end, & there is medical help available should you need it, but rarely offered until 6+.

Good luck with it.

[Pickle]

Agree with others, it's not something you can do much about. My son has been dry in the day since he was 2, but still wears a pull up at night and he will be 6 in January. We have been lifting him at night for a few months (have now stopped) and he is gradually starting to have dry nights. If he is awake he will use the potty/toilet, so we know it's not just "lazy boy" syndrome!

He is very conscious of it, especially as he sees his little sister going to bed wearing pants.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, daughter decided 1 day after her 2nd birthday that she was done with nappies, and hasn't worn one since. She has never wet the bed at night. Same genes, different children!

[susyp]

Do people think I should go ahead and try this? She is soaked in the morning. But I am not sure how much of that is conscious weeing.

She herself is not at all confident about the idea.

She is quite big (5+ clothes) despite only being just 4 and generally has been quite advanced on a physical basis so I find it hard to believe she doesn't have the hormone? I think I would have to lift her - but I really can't imagine her waking to wee- she will probably just cry in protest!

There is a place near her bed I can put a potty + bin to put in toilet tissue so I think she will do that ok at least in the mornings.

Perhaps I should set this up first to persuade her to try and use it before taking away the nappies altogether - with some sort of reward chart? If she really wants to get dry I am sure it wouldn't make any difference if she was wearing pull ups or normal pants?

susypx

[Fuschia]

I don't think I would try it, personally

But as a child I had recurrent utis along with bedwetting, it would have been so much easier if I could have just worn pullups!

IME, taking away the nappy follows on from starting to be dry at least some nights

That has been at age 6 for one, aged just 4 for another and one is still in pullups at 4y 7m though is dry about 5/7 nights so will take the leap soon

[oimissus]

I'm going to suggest something a bit controversial here, and feel free to shoot me down as I have absolutely no experience of this - but your post suggests to me that your daughter isn't really toilet trained or dry in the day - because she isn't really going to the toilet during the day. It sounds like she's 'saving' it up until she's in a nappy at night. So I wondered if a return to potty training tactics to encourage her to urinate more during the day might help? Because it seems to me that it doesn't matter what you do at night - if she's barely weeing in the day it's going to be almost impossible for her to be dry at night.

As I said, no experience at all (recently abandoned my second attempt at potty-training Miss Oi!), but that's just what jumped out at me from your post. Ignore at will!

[Fuschia]

Oimissus, I believe that having a good toileting routine for daytimes is recommended to deal with bedwetting, anyway

But tbh, poor little mite probably holds on to her wee during the day if she has recurrent thrush or vaginitis or cystitis (sorry, I forget what is causing her the problems) because it probably stings :-(

[oimissus]

ah, sorry, didn't realize that bit. Definitely ignore my post!

[Fuschia]

No no, I wasn't disagreeing! I was saying that good daytime toileting is important to get dry at night. And she may well have a problem with weeping daytimes, given the discomfort. Difficult situation to resolve :-(

[susyp]

i don't think it hurts her in the day, and i think generally she is fine going, at school i think because they have to go out the classroom she doesn't like going on her own . But it's also because she doesn't drink anything at school. At home she drinks plenty ( as I make her ) and wees plenty.

We shall try and see how it goes - v much appreciate all the advice!

Susypx

[susyp]

Just wanted to update for anyone worrying about giving up nappies at night - admittedly it's only day 1 - but last night my daughter did 2 wees in her potty by side of bed and no accidents! I would never have thought it possible!!

Lady in the shop where we bought the waterproof sheets said she did it with no bottoms on her daughter - so they don't get a sense there is anything there - we did this (commando sleeping!) and it also made it easier for her to hop on and off the potty.

Lets hope it continues but at least we know she can do it !!

She did make an awful lot of noise just getting out of bed and going to her potty - think she wanted to make sure we knew she was doing it!!

susypx

[Fuschia]

Brilliant!!!!

[susyp]

she's just conked out after loads of sweets and a very late dinner so I suspect tonight may not be as successful!

susypx

[susyp]

Ok well after my initial excitement we have had 2 wet nights in a row. Last night I went to check on her at 4.30am as I hadn't heard anything all night - the bed was soaked right up to her pillow and all her toys - she was fast asleep.

Then tonight I just went up at 830pm (she went to bed at 7 - had 2 wees right before bed) and she was soaked again (and her toys!). It's quite upsetting as she is so conked out I couldn't really clean her properly so she has that horrible wee smell - changed the bed but now have no more waterproof sheets (they take forever to dry?!) so have put a pull up on her but told her to try and use her potty if she can.

At this point, I am tempted to give up as she has done both these wees while fast asleep. What I wanted to find out was whether her nappy was wet because she was just weeing in it consciously rather than going to the toilet. She is 4 3 months. The only thing that makes me wonder whether I should persist is this sore foo foo she keeps getting - it has been fine this week without nappies. But I am concerned she will start to get anxious if she is continously wetting the bed - at the moment neither the nappies or the wetting is upsetting her and I don;t want it to be come a "thing"

tempted to wait 6 months until the easter hols and try again - what do others think? Or is this pitifully soon to give up - does it take night after night of wet sheets before they become dry sometimes?

Also was just reading about this hormone they need to have - it concentrates the urine so there is less liquid - well she has far more volume in her wees at night than at day so does this suggest that she doesn't have this hormone yet? Ie no point in this exercise?

thank you

Susypx

[BeccaL]

I'd leave it a bit, I think. Less stress for both of you

[The Nappy Lady]

From personal experience I'd say wait. We went thru all this with our first - when they are ready then it's easy & if they do have an accident they tend to wake up. I don't think your daughter is ready yet.

I know it's frustrating but no point making it hard work or stressful.

Re her soreness - maybe put a good barrier cream on, and get her nappy off as fast as possible in the mornings & give the entire area a good clean - soap & water if possible on bottom skin to get rid of all ammonia.

Sorry it hasn't worked but it will just happen when you least expect it. I feel your pain.

[susyp]

Yes I think I will wait. Going to keep the potty in her room and maybe do a reward chart for each morning there is wee in it, as I think she can def go early morning, to get the idea in her head. If that doesn't work either will give up entirely! Thanks x

[Fuschia]

Good idea re barrier cream and whipping the pull up off soon as she wakes.

Worth trying an Eco nappy in case it's chemicals in the pull up?