Ladies or women?

[civilservant]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> If I'm walking on a footpath and a woman is

> walking towards me, I am in the habit of moving to

> the roadside of the path as I think for some

> strange reason it is good manners. I must have

> been brainwashed.

Interesting! What happens if a man is walking towards you?

For myself, if I'm walking on a footpath and any person is walking towards me, I am in the habit of moving to the roadside of the path as I think for some strange reason it is good manners. I also hold doors open for men, the poor dears.

As for lady/woman, I'm largely indifferent, although there are times when I am moved to think 'what a prat' when addressed as 'lady'.

[northlondoner]

Can't be bothered to Google - what's taxonomic?

[Alan Medic]

What school of thought are you talking about H? I think the habit of doing this goes back to the days where there may have been a danger of a lady being splashed by a passing horse and cart and ruining her dress. I might be wrong of course.

[Mick Mac]

Lady is actually a title. Have people forgotten that. It's supposed to be a good thing.

[The Minkey]

Whenever someone refers to me as being a lady, I just say I've never been one of those.

[Voyageur]

Happy for all you non lady's to be so :) Crack on!

[hibbs]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Lady is actually a title. Have people forgotten

> that. It's supposed to be a good thing.

I'm more than happy for you to call me Lady Hibbs Mick

[DaveR]

Maybe it would be best if women who are not happy to be called ladies could adopt some kind of visual cue to help out us poor old blokes; how about a big badge with "how dare you look at me!" written on it? Or maybe you could just look really hostile all the time - that would do it.

[New Girl]

Well, you've just screwed up 'Lady and the Tramp' for me. I'll now start calling it 'Hussy and the Tramp' or 'Female and the Tramp'. That better?

I think being called a lady is a compliment. Certainly better than being called every other bleeding 'woman' related word in the English language. I think the term 'Lady' is flattering. It's of times of when courting was a whirlwind experience of when Ladies and Gentleman would meet and court and women were held of high regard and worth knowing? Surely it's the English culture? And now times are bad (due stabbing, murders, sexual abuse, media discrimination, women still fighting for top jobs) we should be embracing our stance as a woman and a lady and fight for what we can with those terms. I don't mind either terms but don't lambast one without realising its real worth. I'm neither. But you have just ruined Lady and the Tramp for me :(

[Huguenot]

I think Lady was the name of the dog rather than a description wasn't it?

AM, the same school of thought that doesn't want you to hold the door: "I can do that myself thank you very much, I'm not disabled you know". I don't know if there's a name for it.

[Alan Medic]

civilservant Wrote:

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> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If I'm walking on a footpath and a woman is

> > walking towards me, I am in the habit of moving

> to

> > the roadside of the path as I think for some

> > strange reason it is good manners. I must have

> > been brainwashed.

>

> Interesting! What happens if a man is walking

> towards you?

Well, I take the route I think is less likely to cause a collision. Sometimes though, particularly in places like a train station where people tend to be in a rush, we would have a little dance upon meeting, going one way the then the other,before getting past each other.

[Alan Medic]

Why Men Walk on the Outside of a Woman. "In 16th-century England, the habit of emptying chamber pots out of upper-story windows into the gutter made a city stroll so hazardous that gentlemen gallantly took the side nearest the curb when walking with their ladies--a position they have assumed ever since, without quite knowing why."

So that's why.

[RosieH]

New Girl Wrote:

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> Well, you've just screwed up 'Lady and the Tramp'

> for me. I'll now start calling it 'Hussy and the

> Tramp' or 'Female and the Tramp'. That better?

>

> I think being called a lady is a compliment.

> Certainly better than being called every other

> bleeding 'woman' related word in the English

> language. I think the term 'Lady' is flattering.

> It's of times of when courting was a whirlwind

> experience of when Ladies and Gentleman would meet

> and court and women were held of high regard and

> worth knowing? Surely it's the English culture?

> And now times are bad (due stabbing, murders,

> sexual abuse, media discrimination, women still

> fighting for top jobs) we should be embracing our

> stance as a woman and a lady and fight for what we

> can with those terms. I don't mind either terms

> but don't lambast one without realising its real

> worth. And for the record I'm 25, at the top of my

> career and not fully English, therefore cannot be

> tarnished with being an 'Old English idealist who

> remembers a better age'. I'm neither. But you have

> just ruined Lady and the Tramp for me :(

I think KMiddy's really pretty too. I have all her OK covers framed above my bed and I'm hoping to get my copy of her sister's cookbook signed.

But your reductio ad absurdum is moronic. And kind of makes the case for the madonna / whore dichotomy - I'm either a refined and delicate lady or I'm a slut? Nice work sister.

[Voyageur]

If someone doesn't agree with you call their opinion moronic - now that's class...

[The Minkey]

My last driving instructor once said "You're supposed to be a young lady not a tank driver! Now, imagine you've got half a pint of lager on the bonnet of the car and you don't want to spill a drop..". That I did object to, on several levels - not least because I was 35 at the time and so was he - but it really is all about context, imo.

[????]

Out of interest I talked to my mum about this and she confirmed that he would thinhk that someonne was being a bit rude if they refferred to her as 'that woman' rather than that 'that Lady', now as a thoroughlly capable and intellihgent woman I am not going to sit down and give her and her contemporaries a lecture on lingisutic decontruction or how her acceptanece of athis patraiachal nonsense is an acceptanece of her repression etc etc. Furthermore, I chatted with my missus(opppos opression RIGHT there in that very word) who says that in certain CONTEXT she'd find the being called a Lady in a one-to-one a 'bit archaic' - work environment, one-to-one in a normal, but not in a general situation. Soooo, Rosie I think your tilting at windmills (my opinion) making this part of some feminist battle.

As I said earlier, I'd never say Ladies/Lady to female colleagues at work and would find it, at best, outdated if a male colleague did...but again, can't recall the last time I heard it in this context.

Meanwhile out on the Lane in Local parks/pubs etc I am probably still going to use Lady as description to my kids when reffering to someone who is also in earshot....at the risk of offence to some (probably a minority). As I know Rosie, Asset and Katie I will not in their case.

Really we should be trying to make people use gentleman rather than man to solve this, that would be far more civil and equal.

[????]

..basically the bottom line is context, surely?

[Alan Medic]

Agree. Completely stupid,and OTT arguements do women no service at all. Neither does insulting other people who disagree with one's rose tinted view of things.

[maxxi]

I think the "Mind that lady with your scooter y' little sod" has already been established and that the weird-out-of-touch-sexist use of what is rapidly becoming the 'L' word would be something like "We do not have enough ladies in the Cabinet" or "I'd like all the men to line up here and the ladies over there" but I've not come across either so maybe it's largely theoretical*.

There was a similar problem with Ms. some years ago. Initial resistance then acceptance and yet, more recently it seems, a drift back into the Miss and Mrs way of doing things. Do those (female) posters who have expressed an indifference to being called lady or woman feel the same about miss, mrs or ms? Are you ever introduced (formally/at work) as one when you would prefer the other and if so do you correct it?

Sits in comfy chair and opens bag of gender-neutral popcorn.

*Please insert your "Or you didn't notice because you're a man" - type comments here.

[Asset]

Even the French are stopping the distinction between mademoiselle and madame!

I refer to myself as a Ms if I am forced into it as neither of the other options fit. Personally I don't see why I should have any little label in front of my name!

[Voyageur]

I get pretty irritated when I am only given the option of Ms (as opposed to Miss/Mrs/Ms) on any form that I have to fill in.

[Alan Medic]

So how many women take their husbands surname as a matter of interest?

[civilservant]

???? Wrote:

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> Out of interest I talked to my mum about this and

> she confirmed ...

I agree with quids.

AM, I've noticed that although old feminists like me persist with our 'maiden' names, many younger women in this country seem to be reverting to the practice of taking their husband's name. New Girl's contribution seems to be typical of a certain kind of post-feminism.

As for which side of the kerb etc, I had no idea that there was a right side and a wrong side for men to walk on.

I routinely walk on the road-side of the pavement when walking with young children, but that's for traffic safety reasons rather than the fear that they might be hit by the contents of a full ED chamber-pot!

[Sue]

Voyageur Wrote:

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> I get pretty irritated when I am only given the

> option of Ms (as opposed to Miss/Mrs/Ms) on any

> form that I have to fill in.

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I get pretty irritated when I am only given the option of Mrs/Miss :))

I have never understood why men are not differentiated by their marital status (not sure if that's grammatical, sorry) whilst women are.

[????]

Re surnames| don't take your husbands but keep your dad's - right on sisters