Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures

[Rockets]

Serena2012 Wrote:

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> Northernmonkey to address your comments:

>

> 1. I do not live at the junction of two A roads,

> in fact, our house is quite a distance from the

> junction, and the only reason we are currently

> experiencing idling traffic is because the volume

> of traffic caused by the closures elsewhere is

> overwhelming for this stretch of road. In case you

> hadn?t noticed, Melbourne Grove, Derwent and Elsie

> also have junctions with two A roads. All these

> closures have done is to take the problems

> previously experienced at some of those junctions,

> particularly the Melbourne/ EDG junction and

> shoved it down the road, where the infrastructure

> cannot cope. There is a reason buses did not go

> down this section of EDG historically and went

> down Melbourne instead, and that is because this

> stretch of road is very very narrow.

>

> 2. What needs to happen therefore is that rather

> than bunging planters in and hoping for the best,

> which clearly isn?t working, and is inevitably

> significantly increasing air pollution, there

> should be a detailed consideration of all the

> options. This includes school streets alone, and

> one way streets. Expecting a narrow stretch of EDG

> to cope with all the additional traffic is naive,

> and quite frankly dangerous.

Serena2012 - unfortunately what many of us predicted would happen is happening. The council has dome zero analysis of the impact of these closures on the remaining open roads. The combination of the DV closure and Melbourne Grove etc is putting unmanageable pressure on East Dulwich Grove.

Of course, when the council closures off Dulwich Village completely during certain hours of the day you may get some relief. But again, that traffic is going to have to go somewhere and the burden will likely be shouldered by Lordship Lane (which again today was tailing back to passed the M&S heading towards the Goose Green roundabout).

Of course any relief from that may be tempered by the closures/restriction of access to Townley, Burbage etc. I suspect the Townley closure will force more and more traffic down EDG. I am afraid it could be about to get a hell of a lot worse.

Instead of championing, and actively lobbying for, these closures our local councillors should have been assessing the likely impact of the closures on their constituents and fighting them - especially the DV closures which I think are the root cause of the majority of problems people are experiencing now. There has been a complete dereliction of duty from them - preferring to tow the party line over their constituents.

[chichirara]

At a time when the shops in East Dulwich are obviously worried about our futures, implementing road closures and parking zones is not helpful. I understand the need to lessen car use and encourage people to walk/ cycle. But a lot of business does come from people driving for various reasons. I have a small vintage shop in Upland Road and when ever the road has been closed for various works etc there?s always a drop in footfall.

[Rockets]

I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have got so quickly following the implementation of the closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers of extra cars being forced through them.

The problem is the council doesn't care about Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them actually despise it.

[Serena2012]

Rockets Wrote:

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> I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship

> Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have

> got so quickly following the implementation of the

> closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and

> Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers

> of extra cars being forced through them.

>

> The problem is the council doesn't care about

> Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them

> actually despise it.

Bus diversions are still operative down EDG even though Dog Kennel Hill has reopened, whilst they work on the wall. EDG has been bumper to bumper from the junction of LL to Townley going South practically all day. I?ve walked it four times (whilst doing the nursery run), and it was utterly hideous. So many schoolchildren, particularly as years 10 and 11 of Charter now enter from EDG and so many noxious fumes.

This is a prime example of how ill thought through these closures are. There will be multiple times a year when one of the A roads in the area is closed for one reason or another. The closure of all viable alternatives other than roads that are already beyond capacity is beyond idiotic.

Southwark have taken money allocated as a result of one public health crisis and created another public health crisis right on their doorstep. You honestly couldn?t make this stuff up.

The number of flagrant breaches of the Highway Code I witnessed on EDG today were also through the roof. Approximately 10 adult cyclists (unaccompanied by minors), cycling on the pavement. A three point turn by a frustrated driver to turn around in the middle of a traffic jam, whilst a bus hurtled towards him; a lorry reversing down the road. The list goes on.

[dulwichfolk]

Council will probably survey the residents at the top of dog kennel hill who?ll say it was quiet today and use it justify closing the top of dog kennel hill permanently!

[thebestnameshavegone]

Rockets Wrote:

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> I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship

> Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have

> got so quickly following the implementation of the

> closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and

> Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers

> of extra cars being forced through them.

>

> The problem is the council doesn't care about

> Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them

> actually despise it.

Presumably you were driving through on another essential journey with your kids, and definitely not contributing to the traffic volume

[Rockets]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

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> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on

> Lordship

> > Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have

> > got so quickly following the implementation of

> the

> > closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and

> > Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the

> numbers

> > of extra cars being forced through them.

> >

> > The problem is the council doesn't care about

> > Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them

> > actually despise it.

>

> Presumably you were driving through on another

> essential journey with your kids, and definitely

> not contributing to the traffic volume

No, my wife and I had walked up through Sydenham Woods, to the Rosendale for lunch (taking advantage of the extended Eat Out to Help Out) and then back through the village and along East Dulwich Grove to go to M&S. It was the same walk that I noticed all the parking tickets on the cars on EDG.

I would be careful jumping to conclusions in future....

[Metallic]

EDguy89 Wrote:

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> macutd Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > it's not a "rat run" it's just a street in East

> > Dulwich that enables people to get about

> without

> > having to clog up the roads that are left in a

> > dangerous and polluting way.

>

> It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on

> the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016

> and it was used constantly as a way for people to

> bypass LL.

>

> Often times people would speed by simply because

> they could. The difference in the amount of

> traffic on this end has been like day and night.

It is a road from A to B. Like nearly all others, it is a road used by everyone probably since the place was created. But nimbyism is actually alive and well and created for a few people at the expense of the population. Like my road. We never asked for what we are about to get.

Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and followed that up? No.

[thebestnameshavegone]

I don't remember being consulted about all the people being able to store 2 tons of their private property for free at the sides of the roads, but here we are.

Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and followed that up? No.

[Rockets]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

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> I don't remember being consulted about all the

> people being able to store 2 tons of their private

> property for free at the sides of the roads, but

> here we are.

>

> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and

> followed that up? No.

I am not entirely sure what your point is here - parked cars weren't suddenly dropped in overnight - people have been parking cars on roads for lifetimes - so no real need for a consultation on that as nothing has changed in that regard.

Went down to Lordship Lane again today (I walked, just in case you are about to suggest I drove a car!) and once again it was tailing back and now Matham Grove has a constant queue of traffic as cars try to find a way around the EDG junction.

It's an utter mess that the council needs to fix.

These changes are not going well

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

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> I don't remember being consulted about all the

> people being able to store 2 tons of their private

> property for free at the sides of the roads, but

> here we are.

>

> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and

> followed that up? No.

It?s paid for by taxes that we all pay and drivers especially so.

For free? That?s your most cretinous one yet.

[Spartacus]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

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> I don't remember being consulted about all the

> people being able to store 2 tons of their private

> property for free at the sides of the roads, but

> here we are.

>

> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and

> followed that up? No.

As the car was invented in 1886 , I'm not surprised you can't remember being consulted as senility possible accounts for the lack of memory (looking good for a 134 Year old I have to add !)

[TheCropolite]

Can people just stop driving their cars for absolutely no bloody reason so we can all stop arguing on here? There?s about 50 threads of the same old twoddle being blurted out by the same old people.

Edit: too much traffic=too many cars. Simply as that.

[Abe_froeman]

It's not even safe to cycle these roads any more though!

I walked up Calton Avenue about half an hour ago and it was fulthy with pollution due to being backed up with cars nearly all the way from Townley road down to so-called Dulwich Square. Nothing could get out because of the queue on Townley Road heading to EDG.

[Spartacus]

TheCropolite Wrote:

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> Can people just stop driving their cars for

> absolutely no bloody reason so we can all stop

> arguing on here? There?s about 50 threads of the

> same old twoddle being blurted out by the same old

> people.

> Edit: too much traffic=too many cars. Simply as

> that.

How absolutely arrogant and inflammatory is that statement?

It's akin to "can everyone stop cycling and walking so cars can rule the roads".

The reason there are so many discussions is because it has really divided opinion so needs to be discussed to come to a consensus.

[TheCropolite]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> TheCropolite Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Can people just stop driving their cars for

> > absolutely no bloody reason so we can all stop

> > arguing on here? There?s about 50 threads of

> the

> > same old twoddle being blurted out by the same

> old

> > people.

> > Edit: too much traffic=too many cars. Simply as

> > that.

>

> How absolutely arrogant and inflammatory is that

> statement?

>

> It's akin to "can everyone stop cycling and

> walking so cars can rule the roads".

>

> The reason there are so many discussions is

> because it has really divided opinion so needs to

> be discussed to come to a consensus.

I think you misinterpreted what I said, maybe try reading it again, slowly.

Edit: FYI people don?t walk on roads.

P.S. if you read it carefully you?ll notice I said people driving *for no reason* I?m not calling for *everyone* to stop driving.

[Jules-and-Boo]

people do drive when they could easily walk.

it's just a fact.

We need to actively work to get people to change their habits and get out of their cars and walk/ cycle/ public transport/ essential journeys.

It's really not a right that needs protecting as much a people think.

[TheCropolite]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> people do drive when they could easily walk.

>

> it's just a fact.

>

> We need to actively work to get people to change

> their habits and get out of their cars and walk/

> cycle/ public transport/ essential journeys.

>

> It's really not a right that needs protecting as

> much a people think.

100% agree.

[Slocky]

TheCropolite Wrote:

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> Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > people do drive when they could easily walk.

> >

> > it's just a fact.

> >

> > We need to actively work to get people to

> change

> > their habits and get out of their cars and

> walk/

> > cycle/ public transport/ essential journeys.

> >

> > It's really not a right that needs protecting

> as

> > much a people think.

>

> 100% agree.

More 100% agreement here. We all have to stop making unnecessary car journeys. Driving a car down residential roads is a privilege, not a right. Since this privilege has been so heavily abused for so long with all the appalling consequences for the health and well-being of us all it is essential that measures are taken to limit and curtail this privilege. Let's just wait and see how these measures pan out.

[ab29]

Slocky Wrote:

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> TheCropolite Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > people do drive when they could easily walk.

> > >

> > > it's just a fact.

> > >

> > > We need to actively work to get people to

> > change

> > > their habits and get out of their cars and

> > walk/

> > > cycle/ public transport/ essential journeys.

> > >

> > > It's really not a right that needs protecting

> > as

> > > much a people think.

> >

> > 100% agree.

>

>

> More 100% agreement here. We all have to stop

> making unnecessary car journeys. Driving a car

> down residential roads is a privilege, not a

> right. Since this privilege has been so heavily

> abused for so long with all the appalling

> consequences for the health and well-being of us

> all it is essential that measures are taken to

> limit and curtail this privilege. Let's just wait

> and see how these measures pan out.

And in a meantime punish everyone who happens to live on the road with extra traffic, more pollution and even more noise? This is nothing short of discrimination.

[TheCropolite]

>

> And in a meantime punish everyone who happens to

> live on the road with extra traffic, more

> pollution and even more noise? This is nothing

> short of discrimination.

Well that went straight over your head didn?t it, why even bother. I won?t.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"This is nothing short of discrimination."

What kind of discrimination, specifically?

[dougiefreeman]

Online Southwark petition is now live

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?id=500000049

[ab29]

dougiefreeman Wrote:

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> Online Southwark petition is now live

>

> http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDispl

> ay.aspx?id=500000049

Thanks :)

[first mate]

Than you!