Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures

[Charles Notice]

Good call.

Sit in the sun and bask in the fact that because of these local closures on your street your house value has probably gone up.

[Frankito]

Without a doubt the smartest line you have written to date....! Who has ever cared about how you feel..??

stecoward101 Wrote:

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>

> Not sure why I am wasting my life on a sunny

> Sunday putting up this post so I will stop.

[macutd]

it's not a "rat run" it's just a street in East Dulwich that enables people to get about without having to clog up the roads that are left in a dangerous and polluting way.

stecoward101 Wrote:

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> Why can people not understand that access to

> Melbourne Grove is still available they (Local

> Authority) have simply blocked one way to stop it

> being a rat run. I think people are making things

> up to suit their arguments. It is disgraceful.

[FairTgirl]

It's worth mentioning that every retail business on Melbourne Grove is a small independant (max 2 outlets in the case of the hairdressers), owner run by people living in the community, employing people in the community.

Not only has the road closure already affected footfall - not all appointments are booked as they allow for walk-in's and these are down resulting in staff having to be sent home on occasion - they also lost at least 1/3 of parking spaces at the same time as the road closure AND the school intends to close the road in a different position which will prevent traffic for periods from the other end of Melbourne Grove.

Yet none of the businesses have had any communication from the council on any of this. It's a shame that there is not more understanding given the businesses have only recently reopoened after lockdown and are trying to get on an even keel.

On a sunny beautiful afternoon when people are out and about it is easy to forget that if the road closure stays as is it will be across winter when we experience the worst of British weather, dark afternoons and wet cold weather when people are least likely to opt for cycling and walking which could have a huge impact on the key Christmas trading period.

It is obvious why they are worried and frustrated given that so far they have had no say in what has happened, how, when or where *before* it has happened.

A suck it and see approach when people's livelihoods are involved is simply not good enough.

[EDguy89]

macutd Wrote:

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> it's not a "rat run" it's just a street in East

> Dulwich that enables people to get about without

> having to clog up the roads that are left in a

> dangerous and polluting way.

It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016 and it was used constantly as a way for people to bypass LL.

Often times people would speed by simply because they could. The difference in the amount of traffic on this end has been like day and night.

[alice]

Of course it?s different - the road is blocked. The self interest masquerading as pro-healthy streets is Transparent.

[Charles Notice]

"It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016 and it was used constantly as a way for people to bypass LL.

Often times people would speed by simply because they could. The difference in the amount of traffic on this end has been like day and night."

So like the poor residents in Camberwell Grove, they went to bed one night and the next morning like in Independence Day when they woke they found there instead of aliens there were cars all over the shop.

Where did all these cars come from they cried we must get the road closed. Think of house prices. They even wanted a toll gate like Dulwich Village.

You say you have been there since 2016 so you would have known that cars used this road to come from LL to EDG when you bought and did not appear overnight.

The closure is just a way to get a gated private community/road and inflate house price should you/others you find you might not have a job in the new future and have to sell.

If I were you I would do the same.

[EDguy89]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> "It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on

> the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016

> and it was used constantly as a way for people to

> bypass LL.

>

> Often times people would speed by simply because

> they could. The difference in the amount of

> traffic on this end has been like day and night."

>

> So like the poor residents in Camberwell Grove,

> they went to bed one night and the next morning

> like in Independence Day when they woke they found

> there instead of aliens there were cars all over

> the shop.

>

> Where did all these cars come from they cried we

> must get the road closed. Think of house prices.

> They even wanted a toll gate like Dulwich Village.

>

>

> You say you have been there since 2016 so you

> would have known that cars used this road to come

> from LL to EDG when you bought and did not appear

> overnight.

>

> The closure is just a way to get a gated private

> community/road and inflate house price should

> you/others you find you might not have a job in

> the new future and have to sell.

>

> If I were you I would do the same.

Has it occurred to you that not everybody on Melbourne Grove owns their own place? Has it occurred to you that some people rent? Or that some people living on this road aren't somehow financially benefiting from this? Has it occurred to you that some people just live here?

Of course it hasn't! It hasn't because you seem to have some delusion that 100% of the populace on this road are somehow operating in the shadows, pulling strings, and influencing local government to help raise house prices. The reality is a lot less interesting than that. Here's the reality: I just rent here.

So please, make sure to tell me again what my personal situation is like. I'm sure it will fit your "us vs them" narrative just wonderfully.

However, here in reality, I find it difficult to discuss these changes from the perspective of someone who lives on the benefited roads because someone will be sure to make some ridiculous assumptions about house prices.

[Rockets]

I wonder if there are residents on the closed roads (any of them) who may like the quietness and change to their situation but do also harbour concerns about the impact the changes are having on roads and residents elsewhere.

[geh]

I wonder if there are residents on the closed roads (any of them) who may like the quietness and change to their situation but do also harbour concerns about the impact the changes are having on their local retailers elsewhere?

because I do!

[EDguy89]

Rockets Wrote:

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> I wonder if there are residents on the closed

> roads (any of them) who may like the quietness and

> change to their situation but do also harbour

> concerns about the impact the changes are having

> on roads and residents elsewhere.

Yeah I'd fall into this category.

My experience since 2016 is that my street, Melbourne Grove, had a very large amount of traffic regularly that just passed through. A lot of the time it was at higher speeds and with traffic aiming to go both north and south and the amount of times cars stood facing one another honking their horns until one backed up was pretty high. They installed speed humps at one point but they didn't achieve all that much. It was a mess. However, it was a mess that most people didn't see.

For the longest time it was completely irrelevant to me because it was just myself and my partner. I've got a kid now and the dangers of the road prior to the closure became really apparent to me.

Now we can walk along the road without having to be more vigilant than normal when crossing the street. So yeah the closure of the road has been really nice for us.

I get that local traffic has been displaced elsewhere, and in reading the other threads, I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been voiced repeatedly.

There isn't a solution that makes everyone happy and there will be people who get the short end of the stick. My opinion on the matter is that car usage needs to decrease dramatically. In 50 years we'll be looking at a wildly different world due to climate change and clinging to our cars isn't helping (for that matter we should also aim to decrease the amount of meat we consume regularly as the farming contributes greatly, but that's beside the point). Obviously there are minority groups that should be able to maintain use of their car. Even then, there should be real financial incentives to drop fossil fuel burning cars and move to electric. An increase of spending on infrastructure and investment in public transport would likely lead to a situation that's more amiable for most people.

[ED_moots]

Rockets Wrote:

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> I wonder if there are residents on the closed

> roads (any of them) who may like the quietness and

> change to their situation but do also harbour

> concerns about the impact the changes are having

> on roads and residents elsewhere.

Yes, absolutely. We don't all support this scheme.

[ED_moots]

geh Wrote:

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> I wonder if there are residents on the closed

> roads (any of them) who may like the quietness and

> change to their situation but do also harbour

> concerns about the impact the changes are having

> on their local retailers elsewhere?

>

> because I do!

Yes, absolutely. We don't all support this scheme

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

" some people just live here? Of course it hasn't! It hasn't because you seem to have some delusion that 100% of the populace on this road are somehow operating in the shadows, pulling strings, and influencing local government to help raise house prices"

The (Mel)Bourne (Grove) Supremacy.

[eastdulwichhenry]

Everyone glibly says traffic is being displaced elsewhere, but I'd like to see the evidence of this. My anecdotal experience is the Lordship Lane and East Dulwich Grove are not busier than before. They've always been very busy, and remain so, but there are still plenty of gaps in traffic too. Similarly, traffic through Dulwich Village was very congested in the first few days after the Calton Road closure but now seems back to something like normal. Presumably the council will be monitoring all this with empirical data so that informed rather than knee-jerk decisions can be made when the trial preiod ends.

[Rockets]

eastdulwichhenry Wrote:

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> Everyone glibly says traffic is being displaced

> elsewhere, but I'd like to see the evidence of

> this. My anecdotal experience is the Lordship Lane

> and East Dulwich Grove are not busier than before.

> They've always been very busy, and remain so, but

> there are still plenty of gaps in traffic too.

> Similarly, traffic through Dulwich Village was

> very congested in the first few days after the

> Calton Road closure but now seems back to

> something like normal. Presumably the council will

> be monitoring all this with empirical data so that

> informed rather than knee-jerk decisions can be

> made when the trial preiod ends.

Lordship Lane was nose-to-tail from outside Moxons to the Goose Green roundabout for the hour I sat having some food on the Lane on Saturday - it did eventually clear into the mid-afternoon but of all my many years being on the Lane on a Saturday I have never seen it like that).

Take a walk around the junction of Dulwich Village and EDG or outside the library at about 3pm and you will see for yourself the impact of the displacement.

The council has only just started monitoring. When the DV closures went in they only put monitoring in on the closed roads and not any of the surrounding roads (yeah....go figure) but they have now been forced to put monitoring in across the area more broadly but, of course, they will have nothing to measure it against as the monitoring only went in after the closures were put in place.

[Earl Aelfheah]

If you go outside your house you can see how much space is given over to cars. There is tons of metal sitting on every single street, most of it rarely moving.

If we want to make it easier for people to use alternatives, then we need to create safe, quiet and clean routes for cycling and walking (and invest in public transport).

Most people are terrified to cycle on roads often dominated by bigger and bigger (pseudo military) vehicles... Many regularly ignoring the speed limits. We have created a hostile environment for anyone wishing to take to two wheels. Is that really an constructive situation?

There is a role for cars clearly, but the amount of space they are allocated is completely out of proportion and it crowds out other types of transport.

The entitlement many feel when it comes to their cars needs to be challenged for what it is. The reaction to some really mild attempts to create space for (mainly) pedestrians, just highlights how indulged the car lobby have become imo.

[first mate]

Rahrahrah,

I think your emphasis is wrong. The priority should be to improve and invest in public transport. Cycling too but emphasis should be on the first.

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> If you go outside your house you can see how much

> space is given over to cars. There is tons of

> metal sitting on every single street, most of it

> rarely moving.

> If we want to make it easier for people to use

> alternatives, then we need to create safe, quiet

> and clean routes for cycling and walking (and

> invest in public transport).

> Most people are terrified to cycle on roads often

> dominated by bigger and bigger (pseudo military)

> vehicles... Many regularly ignoring the speed

> limits. We have created a hostile environment for

> anyone wishing to take to two wheels. Is that

> really an constructive situation?

> There is a role for cars clearly, but the amount

> of space they are allocated is completely out of

> proportion and it crowds out other types of

> transport.

> The entitlement many feel when it comes to their

> cars needs to be challenged for what it is. The

> reaction to some really mild attempts to create

> space for (mainly) pedestrians, just highlights

> how indulged the car lobby have become imo.

Mild attempts to create space....oh dear....yes it is lovely walking or cycling down Court Lane - I am often the only person or cyclist doing so but the moment I turn onto Dulwich Village the hell returns with interest.

All sense seems to have been lost in this debate by the pro-cycle lobby. All many of us are saying is that the route the council is taking to try and deal with these issues is a very blunt, ineffective instrument that will cause far more issues than they resolve - issues that will negatively impact all road users.

The cancel-car culture that is being peddled by the pro-lobby is just not realistic. There is a reason so many people choose to own and use cars - it's because the other forms of transport fail to deliver what they need. And closing a load of roads in Dulwich will not resolve those issues it makes them worse and actually more pronounced.

[Earl Aelfheah]

first mate Wrote:

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> Rahrahrah,

>

> I think your emphasis is wrong. The priority

> should be to improve and invest in public

> transport. Cycling too but emphasis should be on

> the first.

I agree with this. I would like to see a lot more investment in public transport, but that is probably a longer term project.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@Rockets - 'cancel car culture'? 😂

[Pugwash]

With more adults and children cycling due to road closures etc - has anyone got any idea if they have been involved in accidents and 'near misses'?

I ask as I have noticed the following:- more adults with young children (under 11) cycling on main roads i.e Barry Road and Lordship Lane - adults leading with children following - frequently with large gaps between them. I would have thought it better for adults to be behind children.

More pavement cycling of both adults and children.

More running through red lights - adults and children.

Cutting up of pedestrians on crossings and pavements.

[first mate]

Quite. Yesterday, young Dad cycling on narrow pavement down LL, one child clinging onto his bike with him, the other on their own bike with him directing. Doesn?t feel quite right.

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> @Rockets - 'cancel car culture'? 😂

Did you like that one - I thought it was a good one - it came to me in a moment on inspiration.....;-)?

[Abe_froeman]

Would also add that when ever I cycle it's the other cyclists who are the most terrifying road users. I've had far more near misses with lycra clad crazies riding right on my wheel to get a tow, or trying to overtake at a pinch point, or going through a red light at high speed, than I've had with pseudo military vehicles, or even just civilian cars or lorries.

A couple of times I've even had other cyclists lean on me as I've rounded a bend.

Some of them are awful road hogs and I really think it's time for mandatory licences for cyclists in London now.