Johnnies eat out to help out possible scam

[speedbird773]

Heya guys

Today me and a couple of mates had went into Johnnies. Long story short, they tried to charge us full price, I straight away said aren't you doing the eat out to help out? They said no but I remember checking a couple of days before they're on the list so I then said you're on the list.. He then says sorry yes we registered yesterday morning. What an absolute of BS***. I had checked 4 days ago or so they were certainly on the list. Very bizarre situation of I must say. Just makes you think.. Have they been charging people the full price all along?! Anyone else had a similar experience? If so, please share! This is not right.

[Townleygreen]

report them online at HMRC

[JohnL]

if they're claiming it back from the government - report here https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/report-fraud-to-hmrc it's anonymous.

If they've given up on the scheme it's their right (a lot have due to bad behaviour)

[JohnL]

.

[Penguin68]

I'm not sure how this is a scam - of course encouraging people to eat 'for cheap' is misleading (and false advertising) if it isn't, and if they were both charging full price and indenting the government for the 50% up to ?10 that's clearly wrong, but they wouldn't have the invoice paperwork to back this up - but if they're simply not offering the deal then they gain nothing (they receive for the meal only what they would have received, but all from the punter and not some from the government). So they make no more money.

Clearly the punter isn't getting what they thought they should - but the outlet isn't then making any additional money or profit. So it's misleading and false advertising but they are not profiting from it. Indeed they are losing goodwill by so doing.

I can understand why you would think that they weren't dealing fairly - you were conned - but I'm not sure it's, as such, a scam (unless they are charging full price but in some way getting additional funds from the government).

[JohnL]

The questionable practice would be (and not sure if it's legal)

1 - register with scheme

2 - nominally double prices in august and charge customer usual price

3 - claim back for doubled prices from the government

If you don't claim back and charge customers normal price you've just left the scheme - no issue except customer isn't happy IMHO

If you lie on your claim to the government - fraud probably.

[DulwichFox]

I used to be a Big fan of Jonnies

I used to like their Shish Kebab served with Rice or Chips, salad and side of Chili Sauce.

Recently I visited them and had the same meal I had enjoyed many times before (Pre Covid)

The price had risen by ?2. The meat was inedible.. Tough, Chewy fat and gristle. and a smaller amount.

The salad was smaller too.

I used to always leave a tip but on this occasion I did not and explained to the owner ? why.

She said YES i know you you are a regular. She took off the price of a diet cola I had also ordered.

I will not be going back. 50% off or Not

DulwichFox

[ianr]

> By the way it's proper fraud IF you claim it back

Are there any circumstances in which anyone would not make an explicit claim at the time? I've no personal knowledge, but have assumed that it would be a reduction applied universally. And I see that https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/07/chancellor-announces-50--off-meal-discounts-in-august/, who are usually pretty careful about getting their facts right, say:

"Outlets that take part must apply the discount automatically on the entire bill except alcohol and service charges."

I don't understand from the OP why the apology apparently wasn't treated as an admission of fault and accompanied by a refund, and it's acknowledged that it's not a full account. If a further conversation isn't helpful, I would write to them simply asserting all relevant facts in detail with evidence if available, and asking for a refund of the discount, or explanation why not, before making any allegation of fraud.

[JohnL]

Being sympathetic, It's conceivable prices have risen due to the cost of implementing covid measures. That would be valid and not a fiddle.

Most restaurants just give 50% of normal prices though, and you don't hear of issues.

[JohnL]

ianr Wrote:

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> > By the way it's proper fraud IF you claim it

> back

>

> Are there any circumstances in which anyone would

> not make an explicit claim at the time? I've no

> personal knowledge, but have assumed that it would

> be a reduction applied universally. And I see

> that

I deleted that post as I'm not sure anymore - common sense doesn't always seem to apply and I can't find the full rules (do they even exist). :)

[ianr]

> Are there any circumstances in which anyone would

> not make an explicit claim at the time?

What I really meant to say was something like "Are there any circumstances in which anyone would

be deemed not to have made a claim at the time?" ie Isn't it universal and unconditional?

[speedbird773]

We had actually paid the full bill but then as I said I was pretty sure I had saw them on the list so went back inside, showed them, and got a refund of the difference owed.. It was funny because they'd tried to act like they did not know that they were actually participating. Just thinking about it makes me sick.

[speedbird773]

Shrieker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Im also more concerned about their price increases

> than anything else, the breakfasts have gone up by

> a fair bit in the last year or so, and not just

> after covid lockdown.

>

> They probably didnt apply the EOTHO discount to

> you and your 'mates' because you were rude and/or

> demanding (something they get a lot in there,

> especially with demanding parents and kids running

> wild) and they took a disliking to you. You dont

> sound like a very likeable person if you came onto

> a local forum crying about a free ?10 discount,

> calling it "what an absolute of BS***". I see you

> last edited it at 2 in the morning though so i can

> concede you were probably drunk.

>

> I always get a lager with my breakfast and the

> last time i went a full English and beer was a

> shade under ?10 when it used to be about 7 odd

> quid.

>

> Its still the best breakfast around though, as all

> the poncey cafes are ludicrously pricey and

> pretentious and the only other greasy spoon type

> cafe, Dulwich Cafe beside the Palmerston, is

> awful.

Mate, come on now.. It is the principle here... If you're going to do something, do it properly. End of.

[DulwichFox]

I did not make it clear..

I paid the full price .. NOT the 50% off deal

DulwichFox.

[Jules-and-Boo]

If they are on the latest list as participants, they would know and should NOT be charging full price.

Did you show them the list? are they on it now?

[DulwichFox]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> If they are on the latest list as participants,

> they would know and should NOT be charging full

> price.

>

> Did you show them the list? are they on it now?

I went on a day not covered by the deal.

I'm not worried about the deal. I eat out on days when it is quiet.

I was just saying the food has gone a bit down hill. Shame.

Foxy

[Alan Medic]

Is there anything Mexican about the food there? It does class itself as Mexican doesn't it?

[speedbird773]

Shrieker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> speedbird773 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We had actually paid the full bill but then as

> I

> > said I was pretty sure I had saw them on the

> list

> > so went back inside, showed them, and got a

> refund

> > of the difference owed.. It was funny because

> > they'd tried to act like they did not know that

> > they were actually participating. Just thinking

> > about it makes me sick.

>

>

> Im really quite confused how you have managed to

> cope with life, if a young waitress forgetting to

> apply a new and unique discount to your bill after

> a meal makes you sick just thinking about it. I'd

> hate to see what would happen if you had to

> confront a real, genuine problem in life. Perhaps

> you haven had any of those, sounds like it.

Are you serious right now.. 😅 Please read properly what I said. Clearly some learning difficulties in play here. I will not say anymore.. 😴

[speedbird773]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If they are on the latest list as participants,

> they would know and should NOT be charging full

> price.

>

> Did you show them the list? are they on it now?

Yes, this is exactly my point. They were on the list but according to all the staff inside (and the manager) they weren't participating. Hence why they had charged full price. Had to go back inside, show them that they're on the list, (were shocked when I had showed them) and had gotten back the difference owed. I mean come on, clearly they should of known that they were participating right..?! All in all, was a bit fishy for my likings.

[JohnL]

I can't find any government (or other) page that says the rules - can they just opt in and out when they feel like it or not.

Once they signed up were they bound by it until the end of August.

I noticed on Sky "It is worth remembering that some large chains, such as Starbucks, are franchises, so not all branches may be taking part." so it's up to the local manager then ?

[DulwichFox]

Shrieker Wrote:

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> I think its got a Turkish slant to it, not

> Mexican.

Yes they are Turkish. I speak to them in Turkish. Thats why they remember me.

Foxy

[whiteplumeria69]

I know the owners and as they were on holidays, they didn't sign up for a scheme in a first place. They come back and it was busy for them. After a while they have recognised, they should have do that for a customers and on Tuesday they applied (they told me personally). They were waiting for approval from HMRC and suddenly they have been told by customer that they are already on the list. Hence confusion.

[Sue]

speedbird773 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Shrieker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > speedbird773 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > We had actually paid the full bill but then

> as

> > I

> > > said I was pretty sure I had saw them on the

> > list

> > > so went back inside, showed them, and got a

> > refund

> > > of the difference owed.. It was funny because

> > > they'd tried to act like they did not know

> that

> > > they were actually participating. Just

> thinking

> > > about it makes me sick.

> >

> >

> > Im really quite confused how you have managed

> to

> > cope with life, if a young waitress forgetting

> to

> > apply a new and unique discount to your bill

> after

> > a meal makes you sick just thinking about it.

> I'd

> > hate to see what would happen if you had to

> > confront a real, genuine problem in life.

> Perhaps

> > you haven had any of those, sounds like it.

>

> Are you serious right now.. 😅 Please read

> properly what I said. Clearly some learning

> difficulties in play here. I will not say

> anymore.. 😴

Shrieker doesn't (probably) have learning difficulties.

S/he is a troll. Better ignored. Responding just results in more of the same.

[tiddles]

So is this the same Johnnies that someone was praising for looking out for an elderly relative during lockdown? taking food free of charge round to make sure someone vulnerable was safe?

Is it not possible that a member of staff got something wrong - not being aware of the EOHO scheme or just made mistake

Is it also not possible that they have pulled out of the scheme (as many establishments have) due to abuse by and of customers.

Can we please not be so flipping quick to see wrong!!! this is a local business, who like other hospitality establishments have had a very hard time. Do not assume that they have had the grants that many have had - and the reason they are putting their prices up is possibly as they are now having to clear all the bills they were not able to pay during lockdown which are now being loaded now.

Please support our local indenpendant businesses and not be so quick to assume wrongdoing - inlike those big chains who are happy to milk the system (it begins with W if you need a hint..)

[Alan Medic]

Shrieker Wrote:

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> I think its got a Turkish slant to it, not

> Mexican.

Perhaps it's my imagination but I was certain the signage at some point referred to Mexican.