When I was 14 years old...

[MrBen]

...quite a lot of the early developing girls of the same age were out my reach. Not because I was a late developer but because back in Edinburgh in the 1980's, many were openly going out with guys of 18-25 years of age. The guys with a car, beer and experience. And it wasn't considered that odd.

This piece today in the indie chimed with my recollections:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-jimmy-savile-abuse-scandal-means-men-across-britain-will-sleep-uneasily-remembering-past-conquests-8194583.html

[Otta]

Similar story in early 90's SE London!

[????]

This all feels a bit anecdotal and not much else to me. what I remember from the 70s is 15 year old girls going out with the 17 year old blokes not the ageing30 something lotharios she goes on about. When I hit my 17th birthday my then girlfriend was fifteen and a half and that was reasonably avearage. I can't remember many (any?) of my mates in my mid20s (in the mid 80s) going out with girls below 16 or even 18 let alone 14 year olds. I dunno, not saying it didn't happen but the 'norm'? Come on girls let's hear it from you.

[Huguenot]

I think the majority of us dated within our school year.

There was the odd pretty girl who would be popular with older boys, but they were the exceptions not the norm.

Those girls that dated older than themselves did so out of aspiration, amidst rumblings that girls were more mature than boys. They dated usually only one or max two years above them - not 30 year olds.

We were all suspicious of the guys who dated younger than themselves.

[TillieTrotter]

I didn't date boys in my year (or in my school come to that). I had two boyfriends that were about 3 years older than me

the second one I ended up marrying!

[ClareC]

I grew up in Kent and went to an all girls Grammar school in the late eighties / early nineties.

At 14 most girls didn't have boyfriends at all, if they did they were the same age or a year or two older. There was one girl in my class who didn't have the best of family life who "dated" much older men that drank in her parents pub, a very rough pub at that.

We didn't pay it too much attention at the time, tended to think she was making the whole thing up, it definitely wasn't the norm.

Funnily enough a school friend and I did have a conversation years after leaving school to the effect that we suspect in hindsite (and age) she was being abused. If the things she told us happened genuinely did happen, she was a willing party but at 14 she was underage and was being taken advantage of. Looking back the whole situation was extremely sad, I just hope everything worked out for her.

[indiepanda]

I grew up in Essex and went to an all girls Catholic school. Most of the girls I was friends with didn't have boyfriends at 14, I certainly didn't. (mind you with bad braces, NHS glasses and a stoop caused by hiding from bullies it's no great surprise.) Even the girls who did have boyfriends didn't seem to date guys that old.

I suspect as with most things in the media, there's a degree of exaggeration here. Never been out with anyone more than 3 years older than me and much more likely to date younger men to be honest - though that's mainly because I was too focused on work when I was younger and most of the good ones my age had already been snapped up by the time I realised my mistake.

[Otta]

"only one or max two years above them - not 30 year olds. "

Exactly!

[*Bob*]

Similar recollections.. Most of the bog-standard groping (at a series of house parties) was usually attended by just one year, perhaps with a few interlopers.

There was more of an age imbalance when it came to actual relationships, but there weren't a huge amount of those. My first 'proper' GF was younger than me and I got some stick for it at school. but then just having a GF at all would be enough to get some sort of stick! There was certainly no queue of working-age men with cars, cigarettes and vodka waiting at the school gates. I guess the 17 / 15 thing ???? suggests fits. I think it's because that's when girls start to be able to get into pubs and clubs - and when boys had a decent chance of getting served in them.

Inter-relations between staff and pupils were the more headline-grabbing stories. Or would have been, had they not been hushed-up.

[RosieH]

I had older boyfriends from about the age of 15 til when I left school, but not excessively so: 2, 3 and 4 years difference if memory serves.

But the older men thing did happen - not loads, but it happened. We started clubbing at 15, and going to the Hacienda, there were quite often 'name' blokes in there who would go home with young girls (sometimes famous, sometimes just your local friendly kingpin dealer). In fairness to them, it's reasonable that they would think the girls were 18, but still you'd be talking about blokes who were 30-40. A friend of mine was seeing a superstar DJ when she was 15 - I'd hesitate to call her his girlfriend, because she clearly wasn't, it was quite obviously just sex and then a taxi home whenever he was in the mood.

What I find reassuring is that we were all genuinely appalled and tried repeatedly and unsuccessfully to talk her out of it. Similarly a girl who joined our school in sixth form having had to leave her previous school because she was having an affair with a teacher. Imagine our surprise when she up and married him at 18.

So yeah, it does happen, but in my limited experience not that often. I should caveat that I went to posh girls' school. I'm not suggesting for a second that it's a class thing, but I know that dodgy blokes hanging round the school gates simply couldn't have happened - we were well policed. So I can't say with certainty that it doesn't happen.

But where Grace Dent is right is that it's important to make it easier for girls to be listened to and believed. For every schoolfriend who marries her teacher, there are probably many many girls like ClareC's school friend who needed help and didn't get it.

[katie1997]

pretty sure there weren't any older men waiting at the school gates with flash cars & copious amounts of vodka.

what I do recall at around 15yrs is that most girls in my year had massive crushes on some teachers and older boys in the sixth year, but I don't remember any serious relationships happening. but I probably wouldn't have been 'in-the-know' if there was as I wasn't the most popular/trendy/part of the in-crowd* at school anyway.

now in our school's Art department, the teachers were mainly uppity women of a certain age who made you feel like cr@p for not being the next prime candidate for Art School but there was one longish-haired, hippy type male teacher who was a breath of fresh air. You can see where I am going with this. I think he either lost his job or was suspended for a while and all due to (I think it was just) rumours of extra-curricular activities with young girls.

first proper relationship was at 17 AND A HALF with a 20yr old (and that seemed like a massive age gap to me at the time, fool that I was). I think its a bit different when you are under 16yrs of age even if you do feel mature for your age.

*[in Miranda-speak I think I would have been one of The Normals...if anything.]

[ClareC]

When I was in the lower sixth there was a girl in the year above me that seemed to constantly be in the physics lab with one of the physics teachers. He was married to another teacher at the school and we assumed the girl concerned had a crush on him. He was one of the 'fun' teachers.

As soon as she finished school he left his wife and they were officially together! He had two children who must have been @ 10 and 12 so he couldn't have been that young.

There seemed to be no repercussions at school either. Because she was 18 and allegedly they only got together after she left school that was apparently ok.

Their relationship lasted a number of years, she then dumped him and he was last seen depressed and drunk hanging out in local pubs talking to anyone that would listen telling how he had been wronged and she used him....

Had totally forgotten about that until this thread, I don't remember being shocked at the time just though the girl concerned was odd and felt sorry for the other teacher (his wife). Def not the norm though!! No men, cars or vodka at our school gates!

The only alcohol was on the ski trips but that's another story!

[Mick Mac]

When we were 17, anyone of 25 was really old. In fact anyone more than two years older was pretty much past it. I'm sure the girls felt the same. I think a girl going out with anyone even 2 years older than them was quite unusual where we were.

[maxxi]

Back in the 70s some of the more sought after 5th form girls at our school did date older guys (17-22 maybe) but they were often ex-pupils ...

"I thought you were going out with Claire Ashby?"

"Nah, she's seeing Tommy Owen's brother"

"But he left two years ago"

"Yeah. And he's got a Capri"

*They sigh enviously.

[steveo]

In the early 80s, I can recall a couple of East Dulwich roughs hanging out with two 14 year-old Jags girls. They both became long-term relationships, one of which included marriage.

Ten year age difference, at least.

[Otta]

The clubbing thing RosieH mentions rang a bell.

I remember when I was probably about 16, and in 6th form, going to a nightclub with a couple of mates. We were able to get in to these places, but our success rate with the ladies was somewhere around the 1% mark once in.

Anyway, one night we saw these 2 girls that we recognised from symphonic band at school. These girls were at least 2 years below us in school, which would have made them 14 or 15. They were both wearing matching short red skirts, and little black tops, and were done up. We said hello and had a drink with them before going our own way.

Later in the evening we saw them with 2 blokes easily in their 20s. Funny thing is, we wouldn't have even considered trying to pull them because we knew their age. Had we not known them however, and seen them in that club, we probably would have assumed they were older than us and out of our league (even though neither of them were exactly great looking... not that we were either).

[Jah Lush]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In the early 80s, I can recall a couple of East

> Dulwich roughs hanging out with two 14 year-old

> Jags girls. They both became long-term

> relationships, one of which included marriage.

>

> Ten year age difference, at least.

I can vouch for this. I remember it well and I think eyebrows were raised a little at the time, including my own. But I also remember back in the 70s when I was young, handsome and virile and able to shag everyone, plenty of girls being active sexually when they were 14/15 and already on the pill and going out with guys three or four years older than them and in some cases a little older. Indeed, I went out with a few of 'em myself and they certainly weren't virgins by the time they got around to me. Conversely, I had older girlfriends when I was 15. I remember one 17-year-old girl dumping me in horror when she found out my real age. We'd been going at it hammer and tongs just a day or two before and she certainly was complaining then. ;-)

[Michael Palaeologus]

There were a few girls in my year that just looked older and they went out with older blokes BUT older by about 2 or 3 years. Most of us went out with people in the same year. As we got into the 6th Form some guys went out with girls who were 16/17.

We had one girl who REALLY fancied one of the young, male sports teachers. She was physically mature and really very attractive. To his credit, he kept his distance throughout her school career.

We all left 6th Form to go to Uni. Three months later we came back home for Christmas and the annual School 6th form Disco, which by tradition also included the year that had just left and the younger teachers.

WALLOP! The two left together after about 30 minutes at the disco. A fine time was had by all, we later heard.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

As a 17 year old I got into a bit of a tangle with a 63 year old at Bredbury Hall (some place!) near Manchester. I dont oft speak of it.

[KidKruger]

Never had any action until early 20s, definitely late starter, not for want of trying though...

Although, when I was 14 there was a 14 year old girl I went to the park with, she put my hand down her panties and asked me to rub in very specific places, which I did, after some time she started to get all tense and held her face in her hands sitting there. I was worried and said was she OK, she said shutup keep rubbing don't stop - then she froze up for a few seconds then went all pink. My mate of 12 was sat there the whole time with us, he was as startled as me.

When she regained her composure I said what happened, she said oh nothing just a fit.

Never did figure out what happened there....

[Jessie]

My 14 year old school friend got involved with a much, much older man and ended up pregnant with him. She is now a 37 year old grandmother and still with the older man, who was (and still is) a dodgy gangster type from our estate. Being with her in early labour at that young age was all the contraceptive advice I ever needed.

[maxxi]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Never had any action until early 20s, definitely

> late starter, not for want of trying though...

> Although, when I was 14 there was a 14 year old

> girl I went to the park with, she put my hand down

> her panties and asked me to rub in very specific

> places, which I did, after some time she started

> to get all tense and held her face in her hands

> sitting there. I was worried and said was she OK,

> she said shutup keep rubbing don't stop - then she

> froze up for a few seconds then went all pink. My

> mate of 12 was sat there the whole time with us,

> he was as startled as me.

> When she regained her composure I said what

> happened, she said oh nothing just a fit.

> Never did figure out what happened there....

You are Alastair Campbell and I claim my ?5.

[Pickle]

I was at school with a girl we all assumed was gay due to her complete lack of interest in boys in the final years of secondary school. She married our music teacher 6 months after leaving school, he was in his late 20s, and 20+ years on they are still happily married with a large family. Ironically she is also now a teacher, and they both work at the school they met at.

There was also a young teacher (early 20s) who was notorious for inviting himself to the leavers parties and trying his luck with the girls. He also went on to marry someone from my school year.

[Otta]

2 or 3 years after I left Haberdasher's Aske's, the old head of 6th form and another male teacher were both fired for sexual relations with the then head girl. I was just amazed that she chose those 2 badly dressed balding arseholes as opposed to a younger teacher.

[Indiana]

I went to a large normal-ish state school in a suburban part of Surrey in the early 1990s. At 14/15 a small handful of girls were definitely dating older boys. Although most (as per above posts) were 2 or 3 years older, a fairly good friend of mine was dating a 28 year old at 14/15.

We all thought it was mildly 'cool', but equally a bit odd given the big age gap. However, the last time I saw her (in our early/mid twenties) she was still with him. He certainly didn't hang around our school gates, they had met in a pub (and presumably he thought she was older initially, but he certainly knew she was a GCSE schoolgirl very quickly).

When I was then in my mid/late twenties I sometimes thought about that situation and how disturbed I would be if one of my bloke friends started seeing a 15 year old!

Also - another friend was regularly going clubbing at 14 to London, and was pursued by various z-list celebs including a famous Eastenders actor who was probably close to 40 at the time...yuck.