Scotland - Independence Referundum

[Huguenot]

Same as UKIP - bullshit generally. Half witted at best.

[El Pibe]

[JohnL]

Is it just me - but however much people say this debate has been energising - the big issues have not been discussed - it's just short term economic and political stuff.

I really think this might come back in a few years whoever wins on Thursday.

[maxxi]

Okay Scotland look, if you stay we'll drop our kecks and bend over... you can even take a run up!

I know that combating a pie-in-the-sky future as promised by the Yes people with a similarly vague/unrealistic basket of promises must seem like a good idea but this is just getting embarrassing.

[edcam]

I enjoyed this (written by Nicholas Pegg):

The Tale Of The Priceless And Irreplaceable Antique Dining Table

by Hans Atheist Andersen

Once upon a time, some dear old friends were sitting around a priceless and irreplaceable antique dining table. What made this table so precious was that it had been fashioned many hundreds of years earlier from the remains of not one but several ancient tables, making it a unique and beautiful piece of furniture.

And so the old friends sat around the priceless and irreplaceable antique dining table, eating and drinking and chatting, occasionally disagreeing about this or that, but on the whole being very nice to each other and enjoying the most pleasant dinner party.

Then some of the people sitting at one end of the priceless and irreplaceable antique dining table declared that it would be a good idea to saw it in two. Not everyone thought the same, so they decided to have a vote on the matter. It was agreed by all who sat around the priceless and irreplaceable antique dining table that those sitting down at the other end wouldn?t have any say in whether it was sawn in two.

All, that is, except for one little boy, who timidly put up his hand and enquired, ?Please may I ask why I don?t get a vote? Because, you know, I?m sitting at the table too, and I think sawing it in two would be rather a pity.?

And the people at the other end of the priceless and irreplaceable antique dining table told the little boy to shut the f**k up because he was an ignorant bully who didn?t know what he was talking about and in any case he had no right to an opinion because he wasn?t sitting at their end of the priceless and oh anyway you get the general idea.

[uncleglen]

I don't kow what all the fuss is about-

Scotland has a smaller population than London

There is freedom of movement across the whole of Europe

England will carry on as before muddling through, because our population is unmanageable

[El Pibe]

unmanageable as in ungovernable?

[vgrant]

win-win for the scotch if this doesnt come off - they will be flooded with cash from Westminster for the forseeable in order to keep them onside from whoever gets in.

short of a getting a blue passport with a deep fried mars bar rampant and mebbes some plastic tartan coins with bonnie prince charlie on them, London will continue to subsidise their buckfast and skag diet.

Its OK tho England, Faslane will be evacuated just in case and the entire nulcear fleet will relocate to whitstable.Just in case.

English mugs.you will be taken to the cleaners by the canny jocks.

[uncleglen]

This government is managing the economy adequately...and that's about it. But then that may be enough.

[JohnL]

plan to negotiate membership of EU in 18 months has "more ifs than a poem by Rudyard Kipling".

Spanish Minister for Europe

(they have a vested interest don't they :))

[El Pibe]

All these last minute bribes make me hope they vote yes, draw a line under it once and for all. I started out a stalwart no, now I just hope we never have to go through this shit again, and a no vote will just mean 10 years.

[Otta]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All these last minute bribes make me hope they

> vote yes, draw a line under it once and for all. I

> started out a stalwart no, now I just hope we

> never have to go through this shit again, and a no

> vote will just mean 10 years.

What he said.

A convincing No may have drawn a line under it, but IF by some miracle there is a slim win for the No vote, this will come up again soonish.

I did like the antique table story though, sums up how I've felt from the start. It seems somehow wrong that we have absolutely no say in what is happening to the UK, yet I've always felt that I couldn't really voice that for a reason I can't quite explain.

I'd be really interested to know how a "should they stay or go" vote would have come out in the reat of the UK.

[LondonMix]

I was reading an article that made an interesting point that has been glossed over in all of this. Will MPs representing Scotland in Westminster still have a right to vote on legislation that has no impact on their constituencies going forward? The devolution process being promised by the major parties means that decisions made by Westminster will have very little impact on Scotland. Why should Scotland have a say in how England, Wales and Northern Ireland are run going forward?

[DaveR]

In the event of a 'no' vote, expect a major row over any proposed more favorable political/economic settlement for a devo-max Scotland, including re Scots MPs in Westminster, with no public sympathy for Scotland anywhere else in the UK, and especially not in the SE. Subsidising the jocks when they're out of sight/mind is one thing - giving them a load of pressies when they've just voted 51:49 not to f*** off is a bit different.

[????]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was reading an article that made an interesting

> point that has been glossed over in all of this.

> Will MPs representing Scotland in Westminster

> still have a right to vote on legislation that has

> no impact on their constituencies going forward?

> The devolution process being promised by the major

> parties means that decisions made by Westminster

> will have very little impact on Scotland. Why

> should Scotland have a say in how England, Wales

> and Northern Ireland are run going forward?

That's been the case since the Scottish Parliament was established

[civilservant]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was reading an article that made an interesting

> point that has been glossed over in all of this.

This is the 'West Lothian question' - first posed by the late lamented Tam Dalyell in 1977

The antique table story, although it's a rubbish parable, does make a valid point - why can't England (and Wales) also have a say in whether Scotland stays or goes. But frankly I'm finding it difficult to get excited about it all

[JohnL]

As Sky said a lot of unhappy people on Friday

You get the feeling now this is the nuclear option being used - and it should never have got to this.

[LondonMix]

Of course, but as more powers are devolved the issue becomes more pertinent. How much devolution will the public accept while still allowing Scottish MPs to vote on issues not impacting their constituents?

I?d be interested to hear what everyone thinks this is going to look like going forward following this most recent round of concessions.

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I was reading an article that made an

> interesting

> > point that has been glossed over in all of this.

>

> > Will MPs representing Scotland in Westminster

> > still have a right to vote on legislation that

> has

> > no impact on their constituencies going forward?

>

> > The devolution process being promised by the

> major

> > parties means that decisions made by

> Westminster

> > will have very little impact on Scotland. Why

> > should Scotland have a say in how England,

> Wales

> > and Northern Ireland are run going forward?

>

>

> That's been the case since the Scottish Parliament

> was established

[El Pibe]

I'm pretty sure that like everything else all the bribes will be paid for by london.

I can't abide anyone having their cake and eating it, hence I'd rather they just left now.

[Otta]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm pretty sure that like everything else all the

> bribes will be paid for by london.

> I can't abide anyone having their cake and eating

> it, hence I'd rather they just left now.

Once again, what he said.

[El Pibe]

especially if its sour grapes cake ;)

[Jeremy]

If Scotland get their independence then you can bet that Wales will be hot on their heels. Word is that Cornwall want some degree of autonomy too. Then all we have to do is get rid of the north, and then we'll be getting somewhere.

[TE44]

I think this goverment have done a great job at dividing people, better together is a joke, they persist in creating

a divide, and as far as the offer heres a link to official cabinet papers released at beginning of year after 30yrs.

There "invisibility Strategy", They're now preparing the british public just incase its a yes vote, with a big fat

bowl of sour grapes, to the point people believe they will be losing if no vote, but heh theres always the sour grapes.better together, yeah right, after creating a situation where people are now feeling, I wish they'd just leave now.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/thatcher-minister-wanted-to-secretly-cut-millions-from-scotlands-funding.23069373

[????]

Either way now - the outcome's not going to be pretty and it reflects petty (not neccessarily nasty) nationalism/differences etc rather than the positive romaticism some 'Yes' voters seem to claim it is

the outcomes - many english getting fed up with scots and soon and ultimately more devolution, inwardness and autonomy and inwardness, ultimetely in 15-20 years I see us as separate anyway and England out of the EU

Small mindness to me - don't see huge emotional differences in the outcomes that the SNP and UKIP seek. Little englanders and Little scotlanders.

[El Pibe]

that's what i find so depressing. and the same feeling will soon predominate in europe with our opt outs and our threats to leave, eventually they'll just want fUK or whatever it'll be called, to just fOff