Major Works by Southwark Council...should I be worried?

[sedm]

Hello,

I am on the verge of buying a property in East Dulwich, Southwark Council is the landlord.

Everything is going well so far, but it has just been flagged up to me that the Council is planning major works "for boiler/insulation works/ electrical works and window works scheduled for the year 2014/2015."

I've heard some horror stories about people being hit for bills worth tens of thousands of pounds... plus the previous owners of the flats have put in new windows & electrical works in the last few years so I don't understand why this is needed.

Should I be worried?

Does anyone have any similar experiences about being hit for costs for works and do you know roughly how much I could be shelling out? Or whether I could get out of paying?

Thanks!

[Gidget]

Yes, you should be very worried.

Your conveyancer should be writing to the council to find out what the anticipated costs will be. That should lead to a decrease in the selling price, or an undertaking by the seller to shoulder some of the costs. How much were the last costs.

How big is the block?

How many leaseholders vs. council tenants?

It's usually never ending work with the council.

Have previously owned a flat in a block with council and NEVER again.

[sedm]

Thanks for the reply.

It's a large house on a residential street that has been divided up into four flats. So not a council block...

I've got access to the last couple of years of service charges which are all in the ?200 region but clearly the major works are going to be far greater than that...

[tiddles]

yes tread very carefully with anything to do with southwark - they are an absolute nightmare. all contact is via a call centre, there is no continuity so, as we have found, things drag on for months (currently six) and there is no one answerable. Emails are not replied to and everytime you contact the call centre, nothing has happened, and the poor minion logs everything on the system to absolutely no avail. next time you call, there is no record of your many frequent calls.

The only human I did manage to talk to re costs, told me that they cannot tell you how much any work will cost ( this is for a privately owned but southwark leasehold flat) until the end of next year when they send the bills out, but they cannot tell you what they have been quoted.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it is only when you realise the enormity of their incompetance that you realise it might be worth thinking about a bit more.

best of luck

[Gidget]

You will need deep pockets for anything to do with Southwark. I believe most councils are corrupt when it comes to repairs. They aim to offset most of the work onto the leaseholders as they don't get any money back from the council tenants. They will come up with 3 estimates and then say they picked the cheapest one. But it will no doubt be that the other two were enormously inflated to begin with. The standard of work done is appalling. No undercoat usually, so paint flakes off very quickly.

There have been a few stories on here of people having problems with Southwark with their leasehold flats that were only 2 flats in a building. How many other leaseholders are in the building?

When was the last major work carried out? I went past my previous flat about a year after the work had been carried aout and you could not see that any work had been done at all.

Window works - as in replacing the windows with double glazing?

What work has been done to the building in the last 20 years or so? Southwark carried out major works on most of their blocks about 12 years ago, inc. replacing windows.

[KidKruger]

could be a lot of grief, don't set yourself up for a protracted financial nightmare.

[PeckhamRose]

If you are going to be a leaseholder in Southwark, I recommend you (and anyone reading this) join the Leaseholders Association of Southwark. They are a group of leaseholder volunteers who have been so helpful to me. Southwark - 3 years after putting wonderful new double glazed windows in our flats resulting in me not needing to put the fire on during winter the last 3 winters - now have demanded an EXTRA ?2000 for the works.

LAS 2000 have proven helpful to me as I try and argue that this is a tad unreasonable.

[the-e-dealer]

I recommend you dont become a southwark leaseholder!

[zeban]

Agree with all and esp the e-dealer! Southwark seem extremely incompetent tbh

[emza78]

We've just had major works in our block, if southwark decides it needs doing and youre a leaseholder you have no choice but to pay. They do offer some payment plans if this makes a difference to you? Spread over 3 years interest free, there is a 25 year option but you need equity in the property so probably wouldn't apply to a new purchase. We also had a letter through saying they wouldn't do any more major works for the next 5 years now. I think bills for tens of thousands of pounds are quite rare and probably only apply if there's a new lift etc being installed? Don't quote me though!

[Gidget]

I was presented with a bill for over ?12k for the initial works. It included about 5 windows and a new door. That was only the first tranche.

[the-e-dealer]

Well they get the best but that means V Expensive

[Domme_Jay]

Never again would I be a lease holder to southwark, run.

[Monkey]

Get yourself a nice flat with a share of freehold! Plenty around.

[DJKillaQueen]

The boiler and electric works you reference in the OP are mechanical internal works and you are not required as a leaseholder to have them done. The windows however are part of the general building and will be charged for.

I attended monthly meetings for a year, between contractors and council contracts managers, as a resident spokesperson (along with peckhamrose above, representing leaseholder interests) overseeing these kind of major works. I can echo the sentiments above that the standard of work can be unsatisfactory. Worse still, guarantees are not worth anything as far as Southwark contractors go, so it's important that any snags are dealt with while the contractor is still on site. Having tenant supervisors can also help to ensure high standards are met.

PRs advice regarding the Leaseholders Association is good advice.

*PS PR...Have they really asked for more money above what was originally stated? That can not be right surely?

*PPS ''Southwark carried out major works on most of their blocks about 12 years ago, inc. replacing windows.''

Not true Gidget. There are still many blocks waiting to have windows replaced and electrical and mechanical engineering improvement works. The last round of windows contracts were completed three years ago. Works stopped with the Larkenhall Fire which saw Southwark panic and divert money to fire safety improvement works instead. I know this because I've kept close involvement with the evolution of decent homes contracts as a Tenants Association Officer for the past 9 years.

My advice would be that if you are buying a leaseholder flat that has not had these types of works done within the last 15-20 years.....then expect them to happen at some point within the next five years - which is the current plan for completing the external decent homes works (finance dependent).

[sedm]

Thanks so much for the replies. All very helpful - I will definitely join the Leaseholders Association.

I've just had quite a helpful conversation with someone at Southwark Council, who has said that they haven't inspected my property yet so can't say exactly what will be needed. But they confirmed electrical/boiler/insulation works won't apply to me as a leaseholder.

He said that they will check the windows, roof etc to see if there is a problem but if the condition is ok then I won't have to pay anything, although if they do decide to replace the windows the cost will be ?3-4000 plus fees etc.

And he also said it's unlikely there will be any other major works within a 10 year period.

So that's put my mind at rest somewhat... although of course it's still a risk because if they do, for instance, find a problem in the roof I could be stung.

Also, interestingly, I found out there's only two leaseholdes in my block which makes me think I might try and buy the actual freehold in the future.

[youngone]

We have recently bought a flat, one of two in a house that southwark council own the freehold of and we have ha issues already. We noticed that part of the roof was leaking over 4 weeks ago and after an initial possible response and somebody calling out to look at it, we have been passed from person to person with no answers yet. We are trying to renovate but water is still coming in which is heartbreaking due to the amount of work we are doing and paying to have done.

Will definitley look at the leaseholders association.

[HB6]

Does anyone have contact details for the Leaseholders Association? I've been trying to find out more about them for a few months after an ongoing 2-year long battle with Southwark over major works to my flat but I can't find details for the Association anywhere. An earlier thread seems to share an email address but the link is broken. Thanks in advance.

[James Barber]

Hi sedm,

The lease will mean you would need to contribute a quarter of any costs incurred - even if you flat doesnt have electrics and windows and other do.

I would ascertain whether 3/4 flats are leasehold and if they are consider buying the freehold. You'd then all be master of your own destiny and not reliant on Southwark COuncil.

Councils make a loss on managing such freeholds and therefore minimise the efforts they make - not good for you long term.

[the-e-dealer]

Run away.

[sedm]

Thanks James, that's very helpful.

I think there are two leasehold flats and two freehold - I will definitely consider buying the freehold in the future. If you have a freehold in the block, does that mean you don't have to contribute to communal costs?

[PeckhamRose]

LEASEHOLDERS ASSOCIATION OF SOUTHWARK 2000 (LAS 2000), PO Box 23394, London, SE16 2WA

They are volunteers so don't have money for an office so work out of people's homes.

If you write and want some advice it would be polite to send an SAE.

They are only ?12 a year to join.

Here's the sort of success they can be proud of

http://www.anthonygold.co.uk/site/library/firmnews/andrew_brookes_in_victory_for_southwark_council_leaseholders

[Fabricio the Guido]

Well, where some people see problems others see opportunity. It is actually in your interest to argue for a deduction from the selling price based on the estimated cost of the works. This is some times set aside in a reserve.

Service charges can be challenged at the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal. The problem with Council major repairs are that the tenants do not usually get sufficient expert evidence to comment on the quality of the works and whether the works have been carried out to a reasonable standard or not.

I have had some success before the leasehold valuation tribunal and most of the time, it boils down to the quality of the expert evidence.

[the-e-dealer]

Avoid at all costs! Please

[poppy-bees]

Reviving this thread as there is currently a lot of major works happening around Nunhead, by Saltash - is anyone else out there a leaseholder getting stung with extortionate bills for work that is extremely low standard??

Please get in touch if you are

We are in the midst of a battle with Southwark/Saltash and would really like yo hear from anyone in a similar situation