Relationships and Sex Education the following material is for 13+

[niledynodely]

I have for a while now been researching the material being created by sex education providers for our children. I think many parents would be horrified by the material. I am attaching an image from something called The Dice Game created by The Proud Trust. The Dice Game is for 13 year olds upwards.

The material is behind a paywall:

https://www.theproudtrust.org/shop/general-shop/educational-resources-secondary/sexuality-agender-v2/

The way it works is that the six sided dice has a word on each side, Vulva, Penis, Anus, Mouth, Hands/Fingers and Objects. The game is to roll the two dice and then the group will discuss what sexual activity is possible using the two words that face upwards. There?s a grid to explain what is the activity say when anus meets anus or when object meets anus. ?Every combination is worthy of a conversation? says the text and the risks are downplayed. I am attaching a small section of the grid which is all I can do - but I will put some of the text below.

The grid says for example: ?Anus/penis: Sometimes called ?anal sex? this can be a pleasurable experience for the person inserting their penis and the person ?receiving? the penis in their anus. The internal clitoris and/or prostate gland can be stimulated through this kind of sex.? ?Anus/object: the anus can be pleasured by placing objects next to the anus or inside it. The anus responds to temperature, size and movement changes. It is important that objects used in sex are clean. Objects must be smooth, or have ridges, but must be retrievable!? ?Anus/mouth: sometimes called ?oral sex? or ?rimming?. It can be pleasurable for some people to experience giving and receiving oral sex to the anus. You can explore the anus with the tongue and lips by kissing, sucking and licking the area.? ?Anus/hands and fingers: you can touch, stroke or insert finger(s) into the anus ? this is called ?masturbation? or ?fingering.?? ?Anus/vulva: some people enjoy pushing or rubbing their anus and vulva together as the warmth, pressure and moisture can be pleasurable.?

And so it goes on. Remember this is an activity for 13 year olds upwards.

I have been trying to find a website where this material is brought together so that parents can know what is going on. The best I can find is this https://values.foundation/ Hover over 'initiatives' then hover over 'evidence' and you will be lead to a google drive. It is full of documents with material which you really don't want your children to see.

If you have any questions please let me know. I have been researching this stuff a while.

[Lemming]

Leaving your particular focus on anuses aside for the moment, I?m trying to imagine the circumstances under which anus might meet anus - and in all honesty, even I?m struggling.

On the subject of things you don?t want your children to see, I feel it my duty to report that by the age of around 14, if not before, there?s a strong possibility that they?ve already seen it. And not as words on a dice.

[niledynodely]

The point isn't what they have seen or not seen. The point is normalising a whole range of behaviours. Kids may know a whole load of stuff but after half of these RSE classes I would suggest that they are more likely to engage in a whole host of behaviours. And I just don't think this benefits our young people in any way.

[TE44]

Niledynodeli, Thanks for your post. I have told my daughter who has a child starting secondary. Very worrying, I absolutely agree this is about normalising behaviour. Yes we have seen easy access to children via the internet, hence why there are parental controls. Why would 13yr old, or any school age children have to be educated on adults fetishes. Its disgusting. There haz been advice given out regarding safe sex and distancing for adults but its ok for children to be considering many of the behaviours above. Maybe children should be taught respect for themselves and for others in RSE. At a time when voices are being silenced why is it alright these conversations should be put forward to 13yr olds. Thanks again for alerting us.

[Lucymerc]

I think that most young people have so much exposure to more permutations of human to human interaction than is listed here.

Talking about these issues, the mechanics, and importantly the feelings and importance of respect for oneself and others, will help keep young people safe as they navigate the world of love and sex.

Arm them with information, trust them, keep the door open and love them and they?ll be fine. IMO.

[Soylent Green]

From the organisation's website I can see that the Proud Trust is an organisation that that promotes acceptance of LGBTQ+ . As such it does do training in schools about LGBTQ+ awareness. It also works with health workers and other professionals who support young people who are LGBTQ+. Nowhere does it say that this particular resource is for use in schools or as part of the general school curriculum. It only states that they promote awareness and acceptance in schools. This particular material says 13+, but that does not make it appropriate for all teens and the professionals who may choose to use would only do so if they felt it suitable to a particular group they were working with. I think we have an overreaction here trying to shock parents with an extreme example. In this social media age, young people do need guidance on sex and relationships so that they are not misled by material on the internet, or extreme views of others. If you have any concerns about what will be in your own child's curriculum, consult your school.

[seenbeen]

Since the young and symptom-less are spreading the Covid 19 then any mixing of bodily fluids amongst people from different households should carry a Covid-19 related warning.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-clusters-linked-to-asymptomatic-younger-cases/a-54293037

[niledynodely]

Soylent Green - I agree that I have picked an extreme example to shock parents - but I will add that there is an awful lot to choose from and I could have picked many other examples. I also agree that we simply don't know what our children's own schools will use and it is vital keep tabs on this. But all that aside having studied the material (and having done a number of rather dull you tube videos about it) the risk is I think that our children, will, as a result of RSE be more likely to engage in behaviours which won't do them any good. For example the youngest (reproductive) generation are more likely to enage in anal sex than any other generation. If you study RSE across the board you find anal sex consistently promoted. There is also a consistent emphasis on sex for pleasure, I would prefer our children to be taught that sex was a great way of strengthening an already very committed long term relationship. I would prefer that they did not regard sex simply as a way of obtaining pleasure and health which is what is found in the sex positive curriculum. There is also actual encouragement of masturbation across the curriculum - I really don't see that young people need to be encouraged to masturbate. So yes although this was an extreme example - the overall ethos of many programmes I think is not in anyway beneficial to our children.

[Medusa]

Actually, the evidence from countries providing comprehensive sex ed is that young people tend to go on to become sexually active later, rather than earlier. The difference is primarily that they go about it in a more responsible, knowledgeable way and are less likely to contract STDs or have unplanned pregnancies. Knowledge is key to making good, informed choices, after all.

As for the portrayal of sex as frivolous fun, well, the reality is that it *is* for very many people. It is perfectly possible to tell young people that for some people sex is an almost sacred act expressing two people's deep love & commitment while for others it's simply fun, like a fairground ride or a super-cheesy pizza. And that it can mean very different things to the same person at different times. That seems the most truthful explanation to me.

I've brought up 4 kids and that's been my approach and whether by luck or by judgment, it's served us all well.

[TE44]

Medusa, I don't think the above link is comprehensive sex ed, nor do I think this is about inclusion. Have you looked at the link? I would say its more sinister than fun.

[niledynodely]

No that is a nonsense about comprehensive sex education having a positive impact on levels of sexually transmitted disease and levels of pregnancy, and age of sexual debut. It does none of those things - those are myths perpetuated by the providers of sex education because there is enormous money in it. Here is a comprehensive review of the data and I can provide you with others.https://www.institute-research.com/published-cse.php

Whether sex is regarded by young people as being like a super cheesy pizza or a sacred act between two people in love (and most ideally married although I acknowledge that is somewhat difficult to achieve!)doesn't just come out of nowhere but depends on what they are taught at school and how they are brought up. I would prefer my children to regard it as something sacred.

Anyway if you would like to know more about what is happening in our schools a review of the resources has just been launched. It sounds as if your children are grown but still you might like to acquaint yourself with some of the resources https://rsereview.org/

[snowy]

You?re quoting research delivered by an advocate of abstinence programme delivery - who conveniently concludes that his belief is the right one. It?s sponsored by Family Watch who say that homosexuality is a mental disorde derived from childhood trauma and advocates conversion therapy.

Both organisations are led by Mormons.

[niledynodely]

Other research is done by people with a vested interested in promoting sexuality education. Rather than looking at who sponsored the research (and btw thanks for your info I didn't realise that) it is better to look at the quality of the research and the research I have cited is rigorous and thorough. However if you want research by neutral providers please see this Cochrane Review. Cochrane reviews are regarded as the gold standard in all types of research. It confirms what I have said. Comprehensive Sexuality Education is not helping to reduce rates of STD or pregnancy - the purpose for which it was designed. https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006417.pub3/full

[snowy]

Thanks, I?ll take a look. Is it all USA based research as there?s enough longitudinal analysis and statistics to show that abstinence based interventions aren?t effective at reducing teenage pregnancy rates or STI transmission.

Qualitative research also indicated a generational negative trend on young people?s mental health and maturity around sexual / relationships education.

Why do you dislike European HSE evidence?

[pk]

snowy Wrote:

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>

>

> Both organisations are led by Mormons.

i wondered whether that was a typo for a mo and you'd added an extra letter by mistake! it made me chuckle and arguably would be right with or without two 'm's

[pk]

niledynodely Wrote:

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> However if you want research by neutral providers please see this Cochrane Review.

> Cochrane reviews are regarded as the gold standard

> in all types of research. It confirms what I have

> said.

no it doesn't

there's no suggestion that education should be limited to periods and birds and bees

[kalpap]

Thanks for informing us about this.

I already knew that many inappropriate things are happening in sex education,

but this game blew my mind! It?s absolutely disgusting and doesn?t teach children anything.

Except perhaps to treat sex with no respect and behave like an animal. It makes me so sad for the new generation!

[oimissus]

The Department for Education has finally taken note of what is being taught in schools and has issued new guidance, which is very good news as it should keep the likes of Mermaids, GIRES and Stonewall out of our children's school, as well as those peddling other inappropriate materials.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/cancel-culture-gender-stereotypes-and-extreme-political-stances-what-new-dfe-guidance-says-about-rse/

[niledynodely]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> niledynodely Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > However if you want research by neutral

> providers please see this Cochrane Review.

> > Cochrane reviews are regarded as the gold

> standard

> > in all types of research. It confirms what I

> have

> > said.

>

> no it doesn't

>

> there's no suggestion that education should be

> limited to periods and birds and bees

The Cochranew review shows that sex education does not help reduce sexually transmitted diseases or teenage pregnancy. The whole basis for sex ed is that this is what it achieves yet rigorous research shows it does not.

[niledynodely]

Yes I know it has and it is good to know the government listens but with two judicial reviews underway they didn't have much choice. The problem is it is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Schools have already adopted programmes by the inappropriate providers and are not even aware that this new guidance exists.

oimissus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Department for Education has finally taken

> note of what is being taught in schools and has

> issued new guidance, which is very good news as it

> should keep the likes of Mermaids, GIRES and

> Stonewall out of our children's school, as well as

> those peddling other inappropriate materials.

> https://schoolsweek.co.uk/cancel-culture-gender-st

> ereotypes-and-extreme-political-stances-what-new-d

> fe-guidance-says-about-rse/

[oimissus]

yes - and that's added to the fact that the EHRC were giving out incorrect information about the Equality Act - how many schools will have gone there for advice and have no idea that what they were given was wrong?

The regulatory capture is a real scandal.

[niledynodely]

I know. Certain lobby groups have enormous power. The craziest thing about it all is that the lobby groups which have produced the material were actually given the funding to do so by the government. And now the government is effectively turning around and saying the materials you have produced are inappropriate. The govt should have done its homework first.

[RoundTable]

Call me old fashioned, but I didn?t have sex education at class and I managed to get through my teens without having sex, getting pregnant or getting an STI. We were taught about reproduction, menstruation, sexual diseases and that?s that. We did somehow managed to get hold of one or two porn mags and porn fiction, and at some point I remember seeing a porn film whilst still at school. The emphasis was on any sex talks, at school and at home, was on not getting pregnant and not getting an STI. I think I turned out OK.

The problem are the music videos and celebrities who are essentially soft porn stars marketed as pop/rap/whatever to young people. I am a feminist/girl-power/all-that-jazz but don?t feel the need to showcase my vulva to prove my point, and I don?t get turned on by bare chested men with trousers rolled down showing off their underwear [well done you remembered to put some on all by yourself!] waving guns and calling women b*****s. However kids are growing up believing that this is what you have to do to be ?popular? and ?liked?. Very depressing.

[alex_b]

The conception rate in 1971 was 54.9/1000 15-17 year olds, by 1999 it had fallen to 45.1/1000 by 2018 it had fallen to 16.8/1000 (ONS data). While you may ?feel? that your generation turned out better than the kids today the evidence doesn?t bear you out.

Also this thread (not your post but the original posts) have a strongly homophobic tone. You might want to consider whether the original poster is being entirely genuine in their presentation of the curriculum before criticising it.

[alethea]

Whilst I haven't read all the information in full, I think it's important that there is a healthy dialogue and discussion around all aspects of sexual health and relationships, the exposure to unhealthy content is very easy and available to access. Being able to discuss this openly and informatively surely is not a bad thing. And yes maybe 13yr olds discussing anal sex may not feel palatable at that age, but it's something that should have an informed dialogue due to the amount of accessible content online.

There was an interesting trial several years ago which involved a professional from the Netherlands educating a class on the uk in a more open way. This helped to give a more balanced and respectful viewpoint, with realistic and healthier expectations.

To the original point regarding the dice game, I imagine this is a way to bring up the subjects informally to open up the conversation, as opposed to some dark alterior motive. Personally, probably far less embarrassing than having to watch a family playing badminton in the nude which was what I had.

Sex Ed is always going to be devisive, but times change and the education has to change with it.