Dulwich hospital development

[first mate]

Thanks nxjen, I am very aware all GP practices are privately owned, the point is this was a hospital, turned into a community health centre with part of the premises given over to local GP practices that already had premises locally. The reason for my query is that I sought treatment at the health centre in the last two weeks but was told by my ED based GP Practice that it is not yet on the radar. How did you get referred?

[first mate]

Having looked a little further it seems that SELDOC are/will be running the health centre side but there is no detail of services offered, only a vague statement. Does anyone have more information?

[TE44]

First Mate, this link has a list of a number of things offered. Maybe you could phone and inquire.

https://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/our-services/community/southwark/dulwich-hospital.aspx

[first mate]

TE44, many thanks. I will try them again. Last time I called, a few weeks ago, it seemed impossible to get through. The sense is they are running a skeleton service with very limited referrals. I cannot see anything about blood tests and so on.

I hope this is related to the current Covid situation and not signs of a further paring down of services in comparison to what was offered at the original hospital. I have a memory of x-rays also being offered but may be mistaken, would have to check the original plans for the new health centre. Seems no community physio, only very limited offering for those who are ?housebound?.

Having read again, they have suspended all walk-in services because of Covid. Nonetheless, from the list of hypothetical services offered if there were no Covid it seems they may have rowed back on original plans somewhat. Happy to retract if others know better.

[seenbeen]

The end is nigh

https://bjgp.org/content/56/529/565

[first mate]

Yes, it mentions Fradd and who is co-owner of the GP super practice that has managed to get itself premises on the new ?community? health centre. I also note that school nurses are part of the on site health centre offering...lucky old Charter.

[first mate]

Seenbeen, thanks for posting the link below. I hope others read it. The contents are of concern. It quotes Dr Simin Fradd (Concordia/ GP Practice at TJ Community Health Centre).

An example of the scale of departure from established practice allowed by market deregulation is reflected in this interview with Concordia: ?70% of consultations can be led by somebody other than a doctor?we want to see [staff] develop their own autonomy, acquiring prescribing rights, with doctors becoming consultants in their own organisations. I also see receptionists doing QOF searches, taking bloods, doing BPs, ECGs and new patient checks.?10 Meanwhile, in the Vale of Aylesbury the PCT has contracted with a private provider for ?an integrated model of care? combining ?dental, medical, nursing and therapy services?.11 The service will be ?nurse led? ?using telephone triage to ensure the appropriate use of clinicians and using skill mix to aid an effective patient pathway.? None of these new models of care is tested and proved.

seenbeen Wrote:

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> The end is nigh

> https://bjgp.org/content/56/529/565

[lilaccruiser]

One has to admire James Barber?s energy. I only met him once - he called at my door vehemently and articulately to encourage my support for controlled parking in CPR. He seemed very disappointed that I couldn?t see any need for such a regime. Sometimes one wants our elected representatives to do less. Though in the case of Dulwich Hospital, maybe we should do more. The new buildings on the site are rather pleasing to the eye, unlike the grubby wreck that is the Victorian institution next door. I?ve been in there a few times for blood tests and an x ray - it?s not nice. Small rooms, winding corridors, dirty, inefficient and decayed. It?s not particularly distinguished architecturally, so why not demolish it and put up something more fitting and useful?

[worldwiser]

My understanding is that to repurpose most of the building and upgrade it to expected building standards would come with such an outrageous price tag that it can't be justified.

Not that outrageous and unjustifiable sums haven't been spent on other things mind.

[James Barber]

Hi wolrdwiser,

Majority of Dulwich Hospital was built on the cheap. One brick thick for much of the side wings. So almost impossible to make a case to keep them and minimise heating requirements, etc.

It will be great to see the Chateau refurbished - it should look great when completed.

Hi seenbeen,

That is extremely worrying. I would personally not remain registered with a GP practice if replaced by such a private entity. If enough patients make it clear they are refusing to use such private GP providers we morally object to then the local NHS would be expected to listen or made to listen.

I suspect nothing to stop a local council creating a not for profit GP provider to compete - or other group - without the need to make profits it should out compete and win such contracts.

[Abe_froeman]

Have you ever met an NHS doctor James? This not for profit idea suggests not...

[Penguin68]

with a GP practice if replaced by such a private entity

ALL GP practices are private entities - GPs contract with the NHS, certainly, and sometimes (most frequently) exclusively, but GPs are not directly employed by the NHS (unlike hospital doctors, numbers of whom also undertake private work). The NHS has always, since its inception, been a mixture of private (primary care) and public (hospitals etc.) provision.

What you are complaining about is the entry into the primary sector of publicly quoted commercial companies (but GP practices are also commercial, though more frequently partnerships like accountants and lawyers). Some are however wholly owned by wealthy individuals or families. For most GP patients it is the administrative side (i.e. appointments etc,) which most frequently go wrong, most people have generally good things to say about the medical practitioners - so maybe having a commercial company professionally good at administration might not be a bad thing. Just a thought. But don't get precious about primary care, it's not the socialist uplands of your dreams.

[gumshoe]

Having had a blood test at the new centre on Friday, thought it might be useful to give some feedback on it. My overall impression is that it was very good: amenities much better than the Community Hospital, which was clearly left to rot and always gave me the impression of a horror movie set whenever I visited it - lots of bright open spaces, clean, and clearly signposted. Lacks any sort of architectural character as a new build, but very serviceable overall and staff seemed happier in the new surroundings than the old. Much more efficient on the blood tests too, what with having more nurses and space for these.

My only issue was that the Guys website hasn?t been updated and I spent a good amount of time wondering how to get into Dulwich Community Hospital, as this was still the listed place for blood tests, and only after walking around a couple times amongst all of the hording and locked gates that I needed to go to the health centre...

[first mate]

Gumshoe, thanks fir feedback. Were you referred in by an ED based GP?

[Pugwash]

Can I clarify - if my Dulwich based GP sends me for a routine blood test (I usually go to Dulwich) do I now go into the new health Centre?

[nxjen]

Yes, the new location was actually printed on the blood test form I got from the GP but even if the old one is still shown you go to Tessa Jowell. As Gumshoe says, it?s so much better. And cool.

[caz]

Gumshoe you mention Guy's. Does the Tessa Jowell centre come under Guy's and St Thomas trust and not Kings? Asking as I have to have regular blood tests at Guy's and it would be so much easier to have them locally. Dulwich Hospital tests used to get done in Kings lab.

[OutOfFocus]

caz Wrote:

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> Gumshoe you mention Guy's. Does the Tessa Jowell

> centre come under Guy's and St Thomas trust and

> not Kings? Asking as I have to have regular blood

> tests at Guy's and it would be so much easier to

> have them locally. Dulwich Hospital tests used to

> get done in Kings lab.

I don't think there is a simple answer to that!! It comes under https://selondonccg.nhs.uk/ (which merges 6 boroughs including Southwark) . My understanding is the blood tests are provided by King's, but a number of other services are provided by Guys/St Thomas.

So I think you need to ask Guy's. Maybe try PALS,

https://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/patients/your-care/pals.aspx

[JohnL]

Guys, St Thomas and Kings are all Kings aren't they ?

[OutOfFocus]

In a word - maybe.....

At an academic level yes. and the Maudsley is also part of King's partners.

But they are separate trusts. I have tried to get a doctor in one hospital in King's Partners to talk to one in another; everything had to go via my GP.

[ctovey]

My understanding is that only GP requested blood tests are done at Dulwich.

[caz]

Thanks OutOfFocus.

JohnL Guy's and Kings come under different trusts. My understanding is that Blood tests, samples etc ordered by a Dulwich GP all go to Kings labs. Due to a long term chronic illness I've been a long standing patient at both hospitals. While in theory each hospital can log in to each others data in practise in my experience this doesn't work well.

[JohnL]

caz Wrote:

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> Thanks OutOfFocus.

>

> JohnL Guy's and Kings come under different trusts.

> My understanding is that Blood tests, samples etc

> ordered by a Dulwich GP all go to Kings labs. Due

> to a long term chronic illness I've been a long

> standing patient at both hospitals. While in

> theory each hospital can log in to each others

> data in practise in my experience this doesn't

> work well.

Thanks - I'm an ex-Kings student (long ago) so see some of this in the alumni stuff they send me.