lack of masks in Sainsbury's

[Blah Blah]

Quite Katgod, and there is now emerging research of airbourne infection of up to 4 meters. The Winter is going to be a real challenge if people don't start understanding the part all these small measures play.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-latest-airborne-aerosol-outbreaks-social-distancing-a9667706.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1597267298

The research paper here;

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.03.20167395v1.full.pdf

[TE44]

on the second link Blah blah gives in the summary 29 there was a failure to isolate the virus. summary 34 states the RT PCR test was done. this test is not accurate for testing or diagnosing RNA virus as the inventor and Nobel prize winner Kary Mullis himself knew the limitations for this test. Here is a link to a different scientific view on these test.

https://bpa-pathology.com/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/

Edited to be a bit more comprehensive. Thanks to whoever reminded me how incomprehensable I am.

[TE44]

Here is another link about this test. The studies on link from Blah blah rely on these tests being accurate, this has been debatable from the beginning. I suppose its easier to assume people are selfish rather than give people some credit about not complying because they do not believe science which is so conflicted. well at least we have our government to protect us. the paper was published over a week ago. our government decides its a good idea to give half price food at reastuarants that are pretty crowded. not to worry we've got track and trace. I wonder how many people didn't wear a mask for there half price meal, yes I expect people won't wear one when it suits them as well. and you know what thats okay because you're allowed to, at the moment.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/?fbclid=IwAR3G6Fuq8C-8XW7szL43scbKOYFx78irq52A6ZQCRdZmPMWiHTqD_2jv4Zo

[Blah Blah]

Now you are being deliberately sarcastic TE44 whilst posting science you seem not to understand. The covid sample test has nothing to do genome sequencing and this study, so why are you conflating the two and posting irrelevant links that claim the virus has never been isolated? This is completely false. The virus has been isolated by labs in most countries. There are many electron microscopic photos of it. I've had this out with you before so why do you keep repeating the same falsehood?

Also, the report makes comparisons with other studies that failed to find similar results before going on to explain what was different in the methodology in this study. You seem to have completely misread the point of this comparison and ignored their findings as a result.

The study I posted is remarkable because it proves the active form of the virus can transmit intact airborne as stated here;

'Results:

SARS-CoV-2 genomic RNA (vRNA) was detected by real-time reverse transcriptase quantitative polymerase chain reaction (rRT-qPCR) in material collected by air samplings 1-1, 1-3, 2-1, and 2-3, which had been performed without a HEPA filter covering the inlet tube.'

And what is a HEPA Filter TE44? A mesh designed to trap fine particulates. And what does the report say when a HEPA filter is used?

'In contrast, in the presence of a HEPA filter, no SARS-CoV-2 genomes were detected in air samplings 1-2 and 2-2 (Table 1).'

The evidence from this study is that SARS CoV-2 can travel airborne, and that the right kind of barrier can stop it traveling. What is still questionable though, is how high a level of particulates needs to be present to infect others (viral load). The study makes a reasonable conclusion here;

'Unlike previous studies, we have demonstrated the virus in aerosols can be viable, and this suggests that there is an inhalation risk for acquiring COVID-19 within the vicinity of people who emit the virus through expirations including coughs, sneezes, and speaking.'

This has implications when those seasonal colds and coughs hit in the winter and the measures the government may well end up forcing everyone to adhere to. But more bizarre is your contradictory criticism of the advice designed to keep spread to a minimum. Are you determined to catch this thing or something?

[TE44]

Seriously Blah blah,the material collected is not the isolated virus. You fail to recognise this whicj I find bizzarre considering your s cience knowledge. You seem intent or unable to move ftom the fear and spreading it. Surely you know the figures with the flu and the threat this brings every year to vulnerable people, I certainly do. Looking st casees of deaths with so called confirmed cases does not add up to your reasoning nor the governents. You have written above pist like its something i've made up. A refual to recognise conflict in the science. The virus has not been isolated. Can you tell me the amplification level used on these tests, Im assuming there is now records of this. Do you recognise this test wasnever to be used in diagnosis of viruses. This has been recognised by the inventor and constantly over time.

I understand yhe droplet testing, what I sm saying is they are using the sMe test to confirm genetic material. It is less bizzarre than you think,, try speaking to people who are not wearing a mask and listening instead of assuming most are selfish and don't care.i like to learn and be informed, I do not like information, conflicted at that, which at the foundation, is driven by fear whilst at the same time uses choice to divide and silence people.

[TE44]

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-04-05/U-S-doctor-with-flu-in-Jan-tests-positive-for-COVID-19-antibody-Pr1ai87Vte/index.html

This is a very interesting story of a doctor with flu in first week of January who tested positive for covid antibodies.

I know so many people who believe they had covid before they were looking at it being a possibility here. I would imagine most people have come into contact. Natural immunity is happening.

[JohnL]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-04-05/U-S-doctor-w

> ith-flu-in-Jan-tests-positive-for-COVID-19-antibod

> y-Pr1ai87Vte/index.html

>

> This is a very interesting story of a doctor with

> flu in first week of January who tested positive

> for covid antibodies.

> I know so many people who believe they had covid

> before they were looking at it being a possibility

> here. I would imagine most people have come into

> contact. Natural immunity is happening.

For maybe between 6 and 12 months - I think I had it in February but I also think I could now easily catch it again and am not risking my health to find out :)

There are always some people who are naturally totally immune due to a freak mutation or something - 1 in a thousand or less - the people who would survive if it really was a global killer.

[JohnL]

I hope there's some immunity at least because assuming I've come into contact with it, then it is likely to have damaged my heart to some (maybe very small with luck) amount. The second time I get it it could add to that damage cumulatively until the damage becomes significant.

This would make a heart attack more likely maybe years later. Until we know this we can't plan for any type of herd immunity that might take 10 or 20 years off many peoples lifetime for all we know.

[TE44]

JohnL The worry of having a heart attack is also likely to put you at risk. This virus has seemingly travelled round the world in months, do whatever you can within the confines we find ourselves to strengthen your immune system.I am exempt from wearinng a mask, I do not believe I am any more at risk than normal. I follow when the children are having the flu live vaccine nasal spray as this vaccine sheds up to 30days, and when administered parents are asked to keep children away from immuno comprimised people. I think they say 7-10 days. Remember the majority of deaths have been ill vulnerable people. I don't think there has been a time when well people have been quarantined. The results of this lockdown will be left to our children and childrens children.

[JohnL]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL The worry of having a heart attack is also

> likely to put you at risk. This virus has

> seemingly travelled round the world in months, do

> whatever you can within the confines we find

> ourselves to strengthen your immune system.I am

> exempt from wearinng a mask, I do not believe I am

> any more at risk than normal. I follow when the

> children are having the flu live vaccine nasal

> spray as this vaccine sheds up to 30days, and when

> administered parents are asked to keep children

> away from immuno comprimised people. I think they

> say 7-10 days. Remember the majority of deaths

> have been ill vulnerable people. I don't think

> there has been a time when well people have been

> quarantined. The results of this lockdown will be

> left to our children and childrens children.

I exercise 30 minutes on the bike a day now - the idea was to help fight it off if the worst happened - and I do feel better for it and have lost a bit of weight without dieting.

Less beer helps (I've not gone tee total - have a can or two after 9PM)

[TE44]

Johnl Its easy to forget when fear is so virulent, we can make a difference and be responsible for our own health. There is a fine line between warning people of risks and creating so much fear that on its own can be detrimental to your health.I put a link up before on studies showing emotionally and physically the effects of people being isolated. We all have fears albeit different ones this often causes a feeling of bbeing threatened by differences. The problems arise when there is no choice. I did not vaccinate my children, my choice before the doctor(forgot his name) related to MMR vaccine controversy. As my last post says I feel threatened by the pharmaceutical and health organisations but on an individuals level I would not expect peoples choice to be removed.my big fear over the years has been this. I am not going to go roundvin circles playingvthe blame game. I merely want to say we all must look at our fears and try to respect on anothers no matter how difficult.

[Blah Blah]

T44, you are a broken record that keeps repeating the same flawed opinion. Again, it has been explained to you again and again why this is NOT flu. Have you learned nothing? Or do you just refuse to learn full stop?

Go and catch the virus if you really want it that much. But don't tell other people how to look after themselves or take offense if they accuse you of risking their health when you ignore the government advice. Come November, we will be having a very different conversation, I can assure you of that.

And btw, the virus WAS isolated as far back as in March. A Canadian team were among the first to do so. I suggest you widen your research beyond the confirmation bias you seek.

[Blah Blah]

And to push the point TE44, because this really matters and you are spreading misinformation. Isolation of the virus, is essential for growing pathogens in labs that can then be worked on for vaccines. It is one of the first things scientists strive do to when presented with either a new virus or new strains of a known virus. To claim otherwise is just false.

And the more the covid virus is observed, the more its impacts on ACE2 receptors in other parts of the body, like the brain for example are becoming known. It will take years to fully understand every aspect of covid, and yet you still try to downgrade it to the level of a virus we not only have the ability to vaccinate against, but one that covid has surpassed the annual global death toll from in just months. How high do you think the death toll would have been without the pandemic measures? How high do you think it will be after we go through a winter of spread on the back of seasonal coughs and colds? The government is absolutely right to start mitigating now for what could happen over the winter if we take our eye off the ball. And face coverings absolutely will be a part of that mitigation.

[TE44]

Oh Blah blah change the tune, or she se all be to frightened to ask . I have my view lets leave it at that.

[Blah Blah]

I am always going to correct those who deliberately peddle mistruths. Why? Because this is something that can cost lives when it comes to public health. That you are too arrogant to take on board the corrections is all down to you I'm afraid. FACT, the virus HAS been isolated by many labs around the world. FACT, spread of the virus can be reduced by the use of the right barrier. That should be clear enough for you by now.

[TE44]

Keep on peddling your fear, you cant even acknowledge different viws within the science world. You set yourself up as some saviour who interperates truth for others, please get over yourself. You base everything around fear, and have no respect for differences, imagine there are scientists who don't agree with you who may have more authority than yourself, iI believe your attitude is where this silencing of people has came from. A test for common sense would come in handy.

[Blah Blah]

I base everything around scientific research and demonstrable findings. There are nuances in differences of scientific opinion which scientists themselves acknowledge in their own research, especially in the midst of a novel viral pandemic where so much is still to be known. You do not read papers properly, and then you use unrelated science and opinion to refute them. That line of debate has to be debunked.

And if that is not enough, you resort to infantile sneering when the debunk comes. You can not even admit you are wrong about the isolation of the covid virus can you? (Plenty of published research out there on that, which you conveniently have managed to avoid for some reason). Be as rude as you like, it has no impact on me. That kind of attitude though, is the behaviour of someone throwing a strop because they can't bear the evidence that refutes their claim. You have no interest in corroborative science, over confirmation bias for some other agenda (which is why you seek out opinion that is completely out of sync with the bulk of the scientific community).

There is a very good reason why some people don't want to risk getting this virus. They don't want to be the person lying in an ICU unit for weeks, or worse still dying. Nor do they want to be responsible for giving it to someone else who ends up in that place. This is not seasonal Flu, nothing like it.

[dmcd808]

the plan is to devastate economies worldwide, in order to instigate The Great Reset, anyone who 'still' thinks this is about a 'deadly' virus, needs to get real.

[Effra]

Hi Blah Blah,

maybe best not to feed the troll. he/she is beyond the stage of being be convinced by facts and rational argument.

Sadly the fake news and conspiracy theories he/she espouses will be believed by some so it best if all of us to report his content to Admin as being objectionable and detrimental to society at large and get it removed .

[TE44]

https://theconversation.com/i-study-viruses-how-our-team-isolated-the-new-coronavirus-to-fight-the-global-pandemic-133675

link from scientists who isolated virus/

He states, *The more versions of a virus that can be isolated, the better. Having multiple virus isolates allows us to monitor how the virus is evolving in humans as the pandemic is evolving. It also allows researchers to test the efficacy of vaccines and drugs against mutations of the virus.*

https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/07/there-is-one-and-only-one-strain-of-sars-cov-2/

virology professor. says only one isolate. talks about another fear spreading around the glycoprotein.

Heres another way of looking at it; the symptoms were similiar to flu but now have most of the symptoms of living. its became so obvious to people this is more about complying than corona, people have been given so much contradiction its thrown people into confusion and compliance in the hope things can return rather than face the poverty many of us are going to find ourselves in. Many people at the beginning believed if they complied it would pass sooner. yes there were people who were terrified of lying in an ICU or dying horrifically. two of my friends saw the same video of a covid death. it overwhelmed them. they had never sat with someone dying with a lung condition. Death isnt exactly an open topic for conversation in this culture. to be fair, not many things are open for conversation these days. Do you Know how many people have died people would ask when I replied asking if they knew how many people on average usually died they could not even imagine..,es not many people want to die, although the suicide figures have not been given even though Professor Louis Appleby, who holds many positions with mental health and chairs the National Suicide Prevention Strategy advisory Group stated at beginning of lockdown he aimed for real time figures of suicide, this does not semm to have happened. Many people have realised we cannot rely on our government, our health institutes to have our best interest or tell the truth.

[TE44]

Effra Objectionable and detrimental to society= someone who doesnt agree with you, If it wasn't i truly believe in free speech. Be careful what you wish for. all of us, that must be nice and safe and a bit assuming that that is the best action, to report someone who thinks differently to you. And what action do you think should be taken. Blah Blah was condescending,accused me of peddling mistrurhs, arrogant, yes I reacted, but you know what it wouldn't enter my mind to report him. he is entitled to say or type what he thinks, do I agree, no. would I want to silence him, no. you may find some things which were seen as conspiracy theories are unfolding before peoples eyes, whether you agree or not I do not take it personal. although there are many people like you who feel very seperated with no wish to even try to understand. that goes for where ever you stand.

[Blah Blah]

You are finally posting articles that confirm the covid virus can be isolated TE44. Does that mean you have progressed on that point?

And then you go on some journey that starts with conspiracy theory and ends with an incoherent point about death so I am not sure what point you are really trying to make there. Suicide is a rather complex subject. Most people who take that step, have a prior history of depressive illness, which can be short term, or go back years.

Hi Effra, I take your point, but I also think it more useful to challenge and debunk conspiracy theories in the open, even if my patience is tested at times ;)

[TE44]

Yes blah blah, I linked two conflicting links, to show that there was conflict within science. My first post regarding the isolation was refering to the findings and the difficulty in isolating. I tried, not successfully to show, for me, there is a much bigger picture to belief than science, it is impossible for me to not allow other aspects of what i believe to be happening simoultainiiusly. I can follow science and get a picture up to a point,depending on why Im reading it, I am also grateful for what Ive learned over many years. The corruption with the institutes has always been apparent, and I believe as Ive said before science is a threat to our world. I am not talking all individuals. We do not know one another or the lives we lead or have led and I think it is wise to remember that. Goodnight.

[Blah Blah]

So you are asking me to agree with opinion that is factually incorrect because you have a different set of life experiences to me? That is not how science works. All that matters in science is a that a set of experiments, or processes, can be repeated again and again and get the same results. When science uses different processes to try and achieve the same thing, it is always looking for corroboration.

Your articles don't actually conflict each other either. The second one, which discusses isolates specifically, is not actually denying that different strains exist. What it is arguing is that the differences are so small that no impact is made on the behaviour of the virus, and that it is misleading to talk about those differences in the term of there being different versions of this virus. It also acknowledges that claims are being made in pre-prints. That means papers awaiting peer review.

Remember that explanation I gave you of antigenic shift vs drift? His criticism is in the use of language that leads to the inference of the existence of different versions of the virus before evidence is corroborated. And it is a fair note of caution, because mutation, or significant drift, would make this virus more dangerous if we can not create a modifiable vaccine for it, so everyone is looking for evidence of it at every stage. In that environment, it is easy for small changes to be overplayed as something they are not really. And if you look in the comments section, several comments point out that papers claiming to have identified different strains (with measurable different properties) are still waiting to be peer reviewed. So different strains may well already exist.

More importantly though, the scientific community is constantly checking itself, corroborating and sharing findings. Making allegations of corruption isn't helpful.

[Penguin68]

And it is a fair note of caution, because mutation, or significant drift, would make this virus more dangerous if we can not create a modifiable vaccine for it, so everyone is looking for evidence of it at every stage.

Actually, truly random drift is as likely to make the virus less, as more, dangerous to humans. Darwinian drift may do also, as it is not in the virus' best interests to kill its hosts - they need to be ill enough to spread the virus, but ideally for a long time. Rather like the common cold, a sister corona-virus.

But you are of course right that a virus with shifting genetics but where it remains equally dangerous in terms of effect will make effective immunisation that more problematic.