TFL - end of Bakerloo extension

[JohnL]

They want another bailout

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tfl-second-government-bailout-coronavirus-a4507591.html

"TfL also warned they needed to be ?realistic? about what major future projects will be affordable over the next decade including the proposed DLR extension to Thamesmead, the Bakerloo extension and Crossrail 2."

Rather unsurprisingly the Bakerloo line extension down Old Kent Road is now considered vulnerable.

[Spartacus]

I guess the buck stops with the mayor on this but suspect he will weasel his way out again.

Maybe it's time to realise that a mayor of London and all the associated officers / support staff is just another level of bureaucracy and associated costs that could be put to better use by funding projects and not "middle managers"

[diable rouge]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe it's time to realise that a mayor of London

> and all the associated officers / support staff is

> just another level of bureaucracy and associated

> costs that could be put to better use by funding

> projects and not "middle managers"

Do you have any figures of the costs saved to support your statement?...

[Spartacus]

Nope

But if you look at the cost of renting city hall (?11.1 million a year source : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/24/sadiq-khan-proposes-moving-city-hall-to-east-london-to-cut-costs ) and other factors like mayor and assembly members costs (approx ?1.7 million a year source : https://www.london.gov.uk//about-us/governance-and-spending/spending-money-wisely/salaries-expenses-benefits-and-workforce-information) then add expenses and staff costs then the numbers start to stack up quickly. (Sorry I don't have the time to do all the maths but someone can and I bet it's a fair sum)

Seems an awful lot of money for a set of middle management between local councils and the government possibly with a lot of job replication between at least two of the organisations and makes sense of why the GLA was disbanded in my mind as that money could be put to better use by funding actual projects 😱

[diable rouge]

I don't think the numbers do stack up when it comes to project funding, those sums won't get you much. Had you pointed the finger at the waste of tax payers' money on mayoral vanity projects e.g. Johnson's Garden Bridge (?53m) then you would have a better argument, but even then that's down to the mayor rather than the office of mayor. There needs to be more accountability when public money is thrown away like that...

[Spartacus]

You are right DR that's why I'm saying the role of mayor and the Assembly should be abolished as all mayors have their vanity projects (or cancel others) and the cost of having a mayor and all the supporting staff can't be justified when the money spent on roles, expenses, property could be used (as an example ) to fight knife crime by the police 😃

[Abe_froeman]

The mayor is already responsible for policing and knife crime though, as well as tfl.

These are literally 90 per cent of his job remit!

[uncleglen]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The mayor is already responsible for policing and

> knife crime though, as well as tfl.

>

> These are literally 90 per cent of his job remit!

Blimey, he's even a lot more useless than I thought

[Spartacus]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The mayor is already responsible for policing and

> knife crime though, as well as tfl.

>

> These are literally 90 per cent of his job remit!

As Meatloaf sang "two out of three ain't bad" unless, as in this case, the two have been poorly managed

[JohnL]

The Bakerloo line extension hasn't been added to the wishlist for funding (CSR submission to government). Kicks the project into the long grass (along with all the other proposed Bakerloo line extensions over the last 100 years I guess)

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/bakerloo-line-extension-tfl-says-its-not-realistic-to-expect-government-to-fund-extension-soon/

[mrwb]

This crisis would have crippled TFL no matter how it was run.

The fact it was already a totally inefficient shambles has made things worse. Maybe as it gets cut to the bone over the next few years, a better TFL will ultimately emerge.

We can hope anyway.

[malumbu]

Why does this forum, which I expect is generally populated by intelligent people, always degrade to a soapbox to throw rocks at the Mayor?

London has one of the best and cheapest public transport networks in the country. In recent times helped by innovation (Oyster, and then contactless), more joined up networks, increased patronage (OK that hasn't survived Covid).

It takes heaps of money, and we are only in this enviable position due to central government subsidy. All the Mayors have made mistakes - Livingstone promising conductors on our buses, 40p/70p outer and inner fares and the silly bendy buses - but boy did he modernise things, Johnson allowing the capital grant to be given up and his expensive and unnecessary new Routemasters, and Khan (see above).

But do you have a good thing to say about the latter or will it just continue to be a whingefest?

[Spartacus]

Credit where credit due so in his case it's a whingefest😂

[KalamityKel]

With the whole network at risk of collapse (financially) I'm sure TFL have other things on their mind right now *shrugs

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

mrwb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This crisis would have crippled TFL no matter how

> it was run.

>

> The fact it was already a totally inefficient

> shambles has made things worse.

This is, of course, complete rubbish. TfL gets one of the lowest level of subsidy of any large city's transport networks, and makes most of its money on passenger fares - and yet the passenger fares are still very reasonable.

[malumbu]

Compared to where? In the UK it is (or maybe was) disproportionately subsidised by central government. Compared to many big cities in Europe it is less well supported.

Crofton Park to Swanley ?2.90 11 miles in the Oyster Zone

Crofton Park to Eynsford ?7.70 one stop after Swanley, outside the Zone

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Compared to where? In the UK it is (or maybe was)

> disproportionately subsidised by central

> government. Compared to many big cities in Europe

> it is less well supported.

>

> Crofton Park to Swanley ?2.90 11 miles in the

> Oyster Zone

> Crofton Park to Eynsford ?7.70 one stop after

> Swanley, outside the Zone

Compared to the tax Londoners and London businesses pay ? I'm sure London subsidises the rest of the UK.