Applying for primary schools

[Polly D]

Silly question: we are in Southwark but v close to Lewisham borough. So can we apply for, say, both Goodrich and Fairlawn as in 2 separate boroughs?

[Carbonara]

Yes!

[etta166]

Yes. The application process is centralised now, and all online and you can apply to 6 schools in any borough. I'm in the same boat with Southwar/Lambeth and will apply to schools in both places.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Polly, if you live on the boundary, I would suggest you apply to both Southwark and Lewisham schools eg Goodrich, Fairlawn, Horniman, St Francesca Cabrini etc. I would suggest listing your 6 closest schools, whichever borough they fall in, but put them in order of preference over distance. I say this as schools don't know your ranking on the form . You will be offered a place at the highest ranked school that can offer your child a place.

You do however need to submit your form via the LA you live in, (ie Southwark and on-line)

Renata

[Carbonara]

Do make sure you list a school close by (in either borough) which you have a chance of getting into, or a faith school for which you have the necessary qualifications. If you use all your 6 choices to list schools for which you would be too far away from or do not fit the criteria, you will be allocated some other school in Southwark which has a place, possibly miles away.

You are not guaranteed a place at one of your 6 choices unless one of them is able to offer a place. Some parents think they can trick the system by only putting their top choice down, or listing 6 over-subscribed schools for which they are too far away. It doesn't work like that.

Good luck!

[kamath]

The problem I am hearing is that due to bulge classes I maybe not get into the closest schools - Horniman, Fairlawn and Goodrich. Feel that my 6 choices are very popular schools but they are my closest. Thinking I might have to put a faith school (st Antony's) down but we are not Catholics.

Feels a bit of a worry. Fingers crossed we will get one of our 6 !

[Coach Beth]

Look slightly further afield. For instance, Stillness (Lewisham) has a good reputation but not as popular (yet) as Fairlawn. St. Antony's is always over-subscribed I believe and without being a Catholic, it might be a wasted choice for you. In addition, Hornimann has a single form entry making it more difficult to get into.

[Polly D]

Thanks all, v useful.

[Renata Hamvas]

St Anthony's doesn't take non-Catholics but St Francesca Cabrini does, but only a few, after religion, ranking goes on distance like community schools.

Renata

[furley-yap]

PollyD, etta166,

If you are in Southwark bordering another borough, then I strongly urge you to come this Saturday to a meeting with our local Dulwich councillor, Lewis Robinson, to discuss the problems those of us on the borders face.

Its this SATURDAY 29TH SEPTEMBER, from 10AM TILL NOON, at ST STEPHEN'S CHURCH on College Road. This is the second year that Lewis is working with parents to get the council to make more lasting and effective changes in this part of the borough.

You can read more of the full post I made titled "Primary Schools- choice or lack thereof"

Hope to see you on Saturday.

One thought to leave you with- out of 198 applicants in the whole of Southwark who received NO offer of a preference of their choice, 60 came from the Dulwich area. This represents nearly A THIRD of all unsuccessful applicants

[Carbonara]

furley-yap: Did those 60 from the Dulwich area use all 6 choices? And did they all list their closest community school? Just asking for clarification as I saw that Cllr Hamvas posted that the majority of parents she helped had not used all choices.

Is it being on the border of a borough that causes problems in finding a school, or the overall lack of school places and falling between catchments?

Are there schools for which you would be eligible but which you do not like?

There is an overall shortage of spaces in some boroughs.Dunraven, which is close to parts of the Southwark border, is consulting on becoming an all-through school, so providing more primary places. Is there an overall shortage of Southwark places, or is it that the distribution does not match the residential density of the borough?

[kamath]

stillness look lovely and what a wonderful name for a school . Would just be such a mission to get to without a car I think. My choices would be - Horniman, Fairlawn, Goodrich , Heber, Elliot Bank and not sure about the 6th. But all of these seem very hard to get a place. will see what happens.

Thank you advice everyone. So helpful x

[etta166]

Carbonara Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Is there an overall shortage of Southwark

> places, or is it that the distribution does not

> match the residential density of the borough?

Both of these are true.

In the Herne Hill area of the Southwark/Lambeth border there is one very good Southwark school that always goes under-subscribed (no idea why as all the parents I know with kids there are very happy with it and I also know a teacher there who loves the school), and another Lambeth school that is undersubscribed as well. However, many parents in the area only put down the very over-subscribed Dulwich Village Infant School, and then use a private school instead if they don't get offered a place there. These children count in the stats of "received no offer of a preference of their choice".

I think that the Southwark/Lewisham border area is just short of school places, so no matter what 6 schools you put down you will never get a school place close to you unless you are *very* close to the school gates.

[Coach Beth]

The thing is, it might be better to put one that is less over-subscribed and hard to get to but is still at least vaguely in the area because what can happen is that if you don't put that school down as a choice (even your 6th choice), you could be allocated a school very, very far away. i.e. John Donne near Queen's Road Peckham as happened to a number of people in East Dulwich in the last couple of years. Try and put at the bottom of your list two realistic choices that you feel would be a better option than being given a school which is really, really far away.

[Carbonara]

"However, many parents in the area only put down the very over-subscribed Dulwich Village Infant School, and then use a private school instead if they don't get offered a place there. These children count in the stats of "received no offer of a preference of their choice". "

And thereby lies one problem with statistics. Doubtless that situation then attracts the media in a shock horror expose, while the genuine shortage of available places further E on the Lewisham borders is far more of a real problem.

It also demonstrates why it is important for parents to look at a school and talk to parents there, rather than following rumour and outdated reputations.

[etta166]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/life-and-physics/2012/sep/23/schooladmissions-particlephysics?newsfeed=true

This article gives food for thought to anyone applying for schools. More choice has certainly not been better for the residents of the Southwark/Lewisham border...

[bluesuperted]

I think if you need to contemplate driving to Stillness school you won't get in, the intake is 3-form but have been researching houses in the area (as we are hoping to move to HOP) and you have to be within 500m at least from what I've gathered so far.

God, can't believe I'm now part of these conversations!! I guess that's the way with a two-year old in SE London... :S

[Skegness]

I think Stillness is a bit of an odd name for a school. I always imagine lots of children being still and that doesn't seem quite right somehow. However, more helpfully, I know people whose kids are there and love it.

Does anyone know if the primary school at the main Haberdashers Askes site is opening for 2013 reception children? I'm not sure what I think about it politically but the idea of my daughter safely settled till she leaves secondary is SOOOOO tempting! [horrible memories of secondary transfer with older children!]

Hollydale is a nice but undersubscribed school, for those in Nunhead and the surrounds.

[furley-yap]

Carbonara,

to go through your questions

- the stats do not state whether all 6 choices were put down, but I know for a fact that some only put down the schools that they wanted but didn't get any of them. They didn't want to get fobbed off with a sixth choice when they honestly didn't feel that there were more than 2-3 schools that they would consider. I tend to agree with that because really, sixth place hardly feels worth figthing for....

- they listed closest community school but not necessarily in their own borough and we all know that only your borough is statutorily obliged to offer a place.

- the problem is basically one of being in a black hole, see the attached map, and we are basically the area that is only served by Langbourne, at the southernmost tip of Southwark, hence bordering on Lambeth and Lewisham

- i have only one realistic Southwark school choice, Langbourne, whcih I am not too hot and happy about even though it improved to "good" as it has a patchy and unproven track record

- and you have hit the nail on the head, its as you quote "the distribution does not match the residential density of the borough" because of the particular area we are in which belongs to the Dulwich Estate whihc is private corporation.

If anyone is in the same situation, I do hope you will come and attend the meeting this Saturday, I just got an update fro Councillor Robinson and he said the following:-

"I have now had a meeting with education officers at the Town Hall, which has been productive to some degree and I should be able to discuss the following with parents;

1. Primary school places for applicants next year in Dulwich

2. Primary school provision for future years In Dulwich

3. Choice of primary schools in the local area

4. What the local authority is doing and what I will be doing.

"

[LondonMix]

Furley-yap, are you saying that there aren't at least 6 schools within the required 2km of you or that there aren't 6 of high enough quality? These are two very different problems with equally different solutions...

[Renata Hamvas]

Furley-yap, the map you post is very old, these are ward divisions from a decade ago! I suggest you apply to your 6 closest schools and go across LA boundaries. Langbourne Primary was reduced in size from a 2 form entry to a single form entry school some years ago due to the lack of demand of state primary school places in the area (ie there is a single form school currently in a 2 form primary building). I do know, that now like the rest of the Borough and London, there has been an increase in demand for places. Unfortunately with the current Governments policy on schools, LAs can't just set up a new school, it can only be done via the Free School scheme, ie not via the LAs.

Renata

[Carbonara]

furley-yap - thanks. I do agree that ther are black holes, and you would seem to be in one. However in campaigning for more provision, people will drill down into these questions.

Some schools would become more desirable and achieve a better mix of children and results if parents did send their child to the closest school, as in etta's post of 4.13.

The Dulwich estate factor is very frustrating, as is the provision of schools now in the hands of potentially maverick providers through the free schools rather than through LEAs. Madness.

Good luck.

[Renata Hamvas]

Furley-Yap

I don't where you live exactly, but some possible ones, Langbourne, you know: Elm wood, Kelvin Grove, Kingswood, Rosendale , Elmgreen. Due to the current pressure on primary school places in the South of the borough and neighbouring boroughs, you are most likely to get a place in your closest school as schools further away will have other families closer than you. What we don't know is which schools will bulge, that extends last place offered distances for the bulge year. My advice is still therefore, put down your six closest schools, but in order of preference. It will not reduce your chance of being offered a place at your local school if the outlying ones can't.

Renata

[Cora]

Polly D is Dalmain near you? Think that's got a good reputation...Kelvin Grve also looked like it was up and coming a few years back...

[Skegness]

Renata, do you know if the primary school at the Pepys Road Haberdashers Askes site is opening this year?