Married to a transsexual... can it work? On Radio 4

[Victoria C]

Hello,

I feel I am taking advantage of this opportunity but I wanted to share that Emma, my 'wife' (partner, if you prefer) and I, were interviewed on BBC Radio 4: Saturday Live on 15/09/2012. The podcasts and BBC iPlayer are still listing it at the moment.

The issue that we agreed to discuss was the fact that Emma and I married in 2005 but a few years after, I uncovered the truth of myself, that I was indeed transsexual. Not many marriages survive such a calamity but we did.

In spite of the fact that I'm a part of the interview I think Emma spoke very eloquently about the downs and ups of our marriage.

Just wanted to put this out there! Thank you.

[Ridgley]

Great that it has worked out for you, my last boss was a transsexual great person. he would often say he found it difficut to meet people who exceptedhim for who he is.

[LondonMix]

Wow, how long have you been together since your realisation? Your wife and you sound like you have an incredible bond. You are both very lucky. While I like to think I would fully support my partner in a similar situation and remain close, I doubt we could stay married if I'm honest.

[Cassius]

Bit late in the day to comment on this but just to say how great that things worked out for you so well - you are indeed blessed to have a partner/wife/whatever who has been able to come to terms with the real you and who must have made so many sacrifices and compromises to make it right. I sadly know of two other couples whose relationships broke down under the strain of the necessary (especially physical/sexual) changes in the relationship - you two are to be congratulated and I hope that things remain strong between you in the future.

[Victoria C]

Thank you all so much for your comments. In the light of which I hope maybe you caught the interview online if not on the radio.

We did have an amazing response through twitter and Facebook to the radio interview which was wonderful. I know we are a very rare couple - I participate in a number support groups and over the last few years have only met a handful of couples like us, literally. Most trans people who are married at the point of transition end up experiencing their partner requesting an end to the relationship. One can hardly criticise... it's a very, very difficult and challenging situation.

Nonetheless, another benefit of the radio interview is that a publisher contacted Emma Cantons to offer to publish her book - an autobiography and a portrait of our relationship titled If You Really Loved Me.

It's available on digital formats and print through Amazon and Waterstones and if you look at the Amazon Kindle version then you have a taster of the opening pages to see how she writes.

I admit I'm shamelessly plugging but I'm very proud of our relationship and Emma's achievement.

Thank you

Victoria Cantons

[Sue]

Victoria C Wrote:

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I'm very proud of our relationship and Emma's achievement.

>

xxxxxxx

So you should be, it's brilliant, and great to see you both being so open about it.

Apart from anything else, that must make it easier for others in a similar situation to talk about it as well.

[El Pibe]

They being legion!!!!!

I should add its a brilliant tale and mucho respect for the courage and honesty of both of ye.

My mum came out and I vividly remember her fear on telling me, much bless than her fear of telling herself of course.

Oh mum, I said, it's been obvious for years, glad you caught up, now, how about Julia Sommerville?

[silverfox]

To answer your question - no it can't work and nor will it work.

Interesting article in yesterday's Guardian - My husband's sex change

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/02/my-husbands-sex-change?INTCMP=SRCH

"...Looking back, I can say Tom was a wonderful husband, father, friend. Or I can say Tom was a fabrication. A fake, who didn?t want to be with me..."

[DJKillaQueen]

Why are you so predictable sf? I'm guessing this irks your religious views, just like homesexual marriage.

Any relationship can fail, just as similarly any relationship can work and stand the test of time. It ultimately boils down to the two people involved and has little to do with anything else (gender, age etc). The strongest relationships are often those that successfully weather the most difficult of times.

Just because you can dig up one example of a relationship that couldn't survive the challenge of a transgender partner doesn't mean that ALL such relationships will fail. What if I said that because x percentage of heterosexual marriages fail (and a shockingly high percentage of them do) that heterosexual relationships can't work.

Sometimes sf you do seem to leave your logical head somewhere else.

[Jeremy]

silverfox, I thought your post was incredibly spiteful towards the OP.

[silverfox]

I don't see why you consider my answer to the OP's question spiteful Jeremy. I simply gave my opinion - an opinion held, I suspect, by the majority of people in this country.

The OP is happy to broadcast to the world his/her current condition - "...I uncovered the truth of myself, that I was indeed transsexual..." and as he/she states "... Not many marriages survive such..." changes.

I happen to think such a profound change to the dynamic of a marriage places an insurmountable strain on the majority of such relationships.

[Jeremy]

I thought the subject of the thread was the name of the Radio 4 show. Not a cue for people to say in no uncertain terms that their marriage will not work.

I'm sure it does place an insurmountable strain on most relationships, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, or that they shouldn't try. Despite the prejudice and animosity they will unfortunately encounter now and again.

[Victoria C]

Hello,

Sorry for not posting earlier but I have had the flu for the last few days and any energy I did have was used up by the discussions I participated in with Trans Media Watch which keeps an eye on all transgender/intersex mentions in UK media (obviously, hence the name!)

Silverfox, That was a very interesting article which is further lived up by the fact that it would appear to be a very public argument between Ms Christine Benvenuto (of the Guardian article) and her ex, Ms Joy Ladin who wrote her on book about her transition last spring and it had exposure in the Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/transgender-woman_n_1311562.html

I also uncovered a 'full excerpt' of Ms Christine Benvenuto's book here:

http://us.macmillan.com/BookCustomPage_New.aspx?isbn=9780312649500

When you compare the two sides what you see is that one person was a (trans) woman who ought to have been more open before marriage but probably had lots of issues as I did and then there's the wife who shows no sign of ever accepting that her partner was or is a (trans) woman. Christine Benvenuto seems to remain convinced that her ex is a "mentally unstable" man.

Anyway, my point is that there is no reason that that couple should have stayed together. There's no obligation for a couple to stay together if one of them has a problem and they can't face it together. Emma and I were, I suppose, very lucky that our marriage survived. Emma was able to handle what happened to me and I was able to handle Emma's behaviour towards me until we got to a point where we worked again as a couple.

[Victoria C]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't see why you consider my answer to the OP's question spiteful Jeremy. I simply gave my opinion - an opinion held, I suspect, by the majority of people in this country.

>

> The OP is happy to broadcast to the world his/her current condition - "...I uncovered the truth of myself, that I was indeed transsexual..." and as he/she states "... Not many marriages survive such..." changes.

>

> I happen to think such a profound change to the dynamic of a marriage places an insurmountable strain on the majority of such relationships.

************************

Furthermore Silverfox, regards your last comment, it's "she" if you don't mind. I'm an officially recognised intersex female. Google it if you don't know what it means. I was incorrectly labeled male at birth because the doctor simply didn't realise at the time what I was and so my family raised me as male and I was led to believe that I was a male. To cut a long story short I was eventually recognised as the female I actually am and treatment began to correct my physical anomalies.

Admittedly you are right, the marriage that Emma and I have forms part of a tiny minority but we survived what happened to me and us.

As for the majority of people sharing your opinion... if there is a majority, I would hope it is a small one.

Victoria

[DJKillaQueen]

Ignore silverfox's bias Victoria. SF is the regular protestant for acceptance of anything outside of christian traditional family life. You are the perfect example for SF to realise how stupid it is to make any assumptions about other people's relationships.

SF conveniently ignored my very valid point regarding the failure of an extremely high percentage of so called traditional relationships (and marriages). Given that nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, 'people in glass houses throwing stones' might be an apt description of SF's view.

[silverfox]

Hi Vickki (Vicky?). Unlike some of the posts above I will not do you the disservice of patronising you by figuratively patting you on the head in a condescending manner.

You have posted in the Drawing Room to raise this issue which deserves a good airing. So I would like to question the following:

"...I was incorrectly labeled male at birth because the doctor simply didn't realise at the time what I was and so my family raised me as male and I was led to believe that I was a male. To cut a long story short I was eventually recognised as the female I actually am and treatment began to correct my physical anomalies..."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying you were born physically deformed because you were a female (xx chromosomes) but had male attributes, most noticeably a penis which led doctors to mistakenly assume you were male? Or, more probably, are you saying you were born a female trapped in a male body - ie, rather than physical deformity the issue here is a psychological one.

In your initial post you stated:

"...Emma and I married in 2005 but a few years after, I uncovered the truth of myself, that I was indeed transsexual..."

I concluded from this that your eureka moment came to you late in life and three years into your marriage. However your later posts imply ("...to cut a long story short...") you have struggled with your identity and nature for many years. If this is the case, then did Emma and yourself discuss your feelings before you married so that she entered into the marriage aware of the conflicts you were dealing with and so could not be said to have been deceived as to whom she was marrying?

If the latter is the case then you obviously stand a better chance of succeeding with your marriage given the absence of deceit that existed in the article I referred you to.

[Victoria C]

As soon as I get to my laptop I'll give you a proper reply.

[DJKillaQueen]

To be fair SF, the only person patronising anyone is you, by dismissing everyone else?s genuinely good wishes.

You claim the issue for you here is about deceit (and that?s why such a marriage can?t work). I suspect the real issue for you is that a transgender person has entered into marriage, an institution you consider to be the sole preserve of religion, and the privilege of men and women only. Are you really thinking, that once a person goes through a gender transition, they are no longer in a heterosexual marriage? I suspect that is where you will probably end up with your argument.

Deceit on the other hand can be cause of the downfall of any relationship, and more specifically deliberate deceit. But that is something very different from someone dealing with a complex situation within a society that is not always forgiving.

I hope on this occasion you really do take on board the reply that Victoria is going to give you, and learn something.

[Saffron]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Vickki (Vicky?). Unlike some of the posts above

> I will not do you the disservice of patronising

> you by figuratively patting you on the head in a

> condescending manner.

>

> You have posted in the Drawing Room to raise this

> issue which deserves a good airing. So I would

> like to question the following:

>

> "...I was incorrectly labeled male at birth

> because the doctor simply didn't realise at the

> time what I was and so my family raised me as male

> and I was led to believe that I was a male. To cut

> a long story short I was eventually recognised as

> the female I actually am and treatment began to

> correct my physical anomalies..."

>

> I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are

> you saying you were born physically deformed

> because you were a female (xx chromosomes) but had

> male attributes, most noticeably a penis which led

> doctors to mistakenly assume you were male? Or,

> more probably, are you saying you were born a

> female trapped in a male body - ie, rather than

> physical deformity the issue here is a

> psychological one.

>

The issue of gender is much more complicated than that. Briefly, the Y chromosome should act at several definite times to direct the production of a totally male foetus. Think of these like a set of switches. If the switches fail (for any number of reasons) during the production of a male foetus, then that phase can be left incompleted. For example this can result in a chromosomal profile of XY, but with a female brain and male genitals. That's just one variation. There are many. The reverse can be true for a female foetus that is accidentally masculized at any given point, generally where there is a failure of the hormone system to properly produce or respond to hormones. In short, the issue can be far more complicated than psychological.

[KidKruger]

On a point of clarification DJKQ, are you saying that if one person in a heterosexual marriage changes their gender having believed they were really always that other gender and wanting to be acknowledged by all including the authorities as of the (new) gender, actually REALLY considers themselves NOT of the new gender and therefore still in a heterosexual relationship ?

In short, are you saying that it is a heterosexual relationship because the partners are now both same gender ?

Genuine question, not a challenge !

[silverfox]

Thanks Saffron, I bow to superior knowledge on that point. I suppose hormonal/chemical imbalances do shape us to differing degrees.

DJKQ,

"...Are you really thinking, that once a person goes through a gender transition, they are no longer in a heterosexual marriage? I suspect that is where you will probably end up with your argument..."

I hadn't really thought about it that way. My point on deceit was an example where one party to the marriage enters into the union on false pretences. I suppose it depends on what you mean by a heterosexual marriage. If it can be defined as a man and a woman sharing their lives together and part of this is enjoying sexual relations together, then if one party changes so that he/she effectively starts living a separate life and/or no longer offers the emotional support and sexual comfort then the other person could well feel that the new situation is not what they signed up for and feel cheated. Such a state of affairs can however apply in any relationship, including gay marriages where one partner decides they are no longer gay.

[Victoria C]

Deleted

[DJKillaQueen]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On a point of clarification DJKQ, are you saying

> that if one person in a heterosexual marriage

> changes their gender having believed they were

> really always that other gender and wanting to be

> acknowledged by all including the authorities as

> of the (new) gender, actually REALLY considers

> themselves NOT of the new gender and therefore

> still in a heterosexual relationship ?

> In short, are you saying that it is a heterosexual

> relationship because the partners are now both

> same gender ?

>

> Genuine question, not a challenge !

My point was more a case of, why would it matter? SF believes that such a relationship can never work. That's such an absolute statement to me, based on what? Based purely on the point that one person is of transgender, and then calls others patronising! Whether any relationship survives or fails depends on so many things that I have to ask why would SF suggest that this kind of relationship can NEVER work. I can only go on previous debates with SF, the gay marriage thread being one example, to have some idea of SF's standpoint on these kinds of issues. I doubt SF in reality knows very much about gender dysphoria.....but even that aside, to assume to know that any kind of relationship can never work is just naive.

[DJKillaQueen]

That's a very brave post Victoria. And it raises genuine issues around physiology and sexuality. Thousands of babies are born every year with both genetalia, with doctors having no idea as to which gender those babies truly identify. And sadly, many people have no idea such a thing exists.

[silverfox]

Thank you for your very revealing story Vicky. It was not my intention to elicit private matters.

You have made a huge contribution to the better understanding of this issue. I wish you and Emma the very best.