The Livesey Museum faces closure

[trinity]

I went to the Livesey yesterday with 4 kids aged 2 to 9 years. We spent a fantastic hour and a half in the exhibition which entertained all the children irrespective of their age. Such imagination and care had gone into the design of the exhibits. Our favourite was the treasure island with a quicksand beach.

Whilst we were there a school group arrived from (I think) Rye Oak primary school. The children were fascinated by the exhibits & the museum really connected with them. They were also very well behaved so well done to the children, teachers and museum staff. The Livesey gets 2 school visits a day during term time which suggests it is reaching a lot of children for whom museum visits are a rare treat.

This is a unique museum that provides incredible value for money in an area of London with very little to offer children to stimulate their minds. I am very sad that the council is too shortsighted to see this.

[macroban]

I note that Councillor Barber ignored this thread.

[pk]

macroban Wrote:

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> I note that Councillor Barber ignored this thread.

was thinking exactly the same myself

[mightyroar]

from the website- They need your support tomorrow night at Peckham Town Hall:

LET SOUTHWARK'S LOCAL COUNCILLORS KNOW YOUR VIEWS

- THERE IS STILL A CHANCE THE MUSEUM CAN BE SAVED

At Tuesday's meeting of Southwark?s Executive Council it was decided to close the Livesey Museum for Children in this year?s round of budget cuts. The decision was made in spite of a large amount of support for the museum from local people, which included a demonstration outside the council chamber. It also transpired that the Executive Council had based their decision on an inaccurate briefing paper which amongst other things slashed the museum?s visitor figures by nearly 8000.

This is set to be ratified at a full Council meeting on the 20th February. The meeting is at 7.00 at Peckham Town Hall.

PLEASE COME TO THE MEETING

- THE MUSEUM NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT

[bawdy-nan]

There is a facebook group providing more information about the campaign, contact details for councillors as well as imformation about the planned protest meeting and room to discuss whats happening.

The South London Press have picked up on the story about Southwark using inaccurate attendance figures to justify their decision to close the Livesey Museum.

[franglaisia]

Would it be possible to post here the names of the councillors who are pro closure, any of them who have (genuinely) objected, and a summary of any statements/replies received from any of the local MPs?

[bawdy-nan]

Of the East Dulwich cllrs - Richard Thomas replied to my email to him to say that he was in favour of the closure, James Barber hasn't replied to my email (though was cc'd in by RT). On his blog, in one of comments discussing the council cuts, James Barber says he is in faviur of the closure because it only has 7000 visitors a year and therefore represents poor value for money / large spend per head. Southwark Council offical figures (as supplied to the Audit Office) are 17830 per year. This has been pointed out to Cllr Barber but I'm not sure if he has adjusted his poinyt of view in light of the accurate figures. As his main argument for closure was the visitor numbers I would hope that he would do the decnet thing and revise his stance ...

I don't know what the response of MP's are - according to the facebook group Harriet Harman is supporting the museum to stay open. I haven't had a reply from Tessa Jowell.

Essentially the cllrs are split down the predictable party lines with the lib dem / con coalition supporting the closure and the Lab cllrs opposing it.

There is much more detail on the facebook group but I don't have access to all of the comings and goings of the campaign so can't necessarily report accurately on the state of play.

[bawdy-nan]

There is a story about this in the Times today

[Scruffy Mummy]

It is an absolute disgrace that the council are seeking to close this fantastic resource. The area of Southwark is extremely deprived - the Old Kent Road has very little resources now for young families, particularly since the closure of the library in the former Civic Centre. I would very happily give up any money to replace that stupid fence on Goose Green and give it to the Livesly!!! I mean - really, if it is a choice between replacing a fence (which admittedly isn't very beautiful but serves it's purpose) and a children's museum then the choice is obvisous. But then, I guess since the Lib Dems are in power in this area and not where the Livesely is, they would rather pump more money here to keep there seats.

[macroban]

Seems that Councillor Barber has ignored this thread again.

[bawdy-nan]

Cllr Barber is probably finding it hard to change his mind.

I imagine this is a difficult thing to do when you are in the public eye. He might take heart that his Lib Deb colleague former councillor for the Livesey ward, Jonathon Hunt says on the petition:

" I do believe my colleagues have got it wrong in closing this wonderful resource for children in one of the most deprived parts of the borough. I shall do my utmost to persuade them to look elsewhere for their cuts. And to keep the building in public hands as our benefactor intended."

[Cassius]

It was mentioned on the BBC Breakfast News London bulletin this morning at 8.30 am

[bawdy-nan]

I just noticed this post on the facebook group from an independent evaluator of the Livesey

"I had..the great pleasure and privilege of evaluating the Livesey's.. 'Myths and Legends' in 2006. The report..contributed to...'Telling tales- a guide to developing effective storytelling programmes for museums', thus proving that the Museum is at the forefront of its field...The Livesey attracts families and school visitors of diverse backgrounds and the Museum serves as a positive and vibrant, and very important meeting point... Building on the UN convention of the rights of the child, Children's museums are pioneers and essential in the field of... developing innovative and creative informal learning spaces...There are too few Children's museums in the UK, and by closing the Livesey..., this list will be even shorter... many young Londoners will be denied the opportunity to, in a dedicated and unique space with expert facilitators, develop their curiosity, imagination, teamwork and language skills." Emily Johnsson

[She'llsurvive]

what happened at the meeting?

[Scruffy Mummy]

All the Lib Dem counsellors held firm and with the Tories, they have agreed that the Livesey will lose it's funding and close of Feb 29 2008.

They might consider a rescue plan but someone has to step in quick. PLEASE - there must be some city type out there in Dulwich who has just pocketed a million pound bonus who could spare ?140,000??

As a note of interst, on the facebook group, someone posted a reply they got from our esteemed counsellor Barber where he stated that 'The Livesey Museum is an under-used resource. What the Livesey Museum needs is a cafe.' For goodness sakes, a cafe??' Again, it proves my point that these counsellors are all about style not substance.

[She'llsurvive]

any of those dulwich lawyers out there who could help with how to call for a judicial review (or similar appeal) of this decision based on false information and seemingly a two fingers to stated government policy on increasing children's access to museums?

[mightyroar]

Well it is closing...for now...but here's the full update from the facebook group..........there is hope! any hacks out there need to push this story and maybe they will get funding.

from the facebook Southwark museums campaign:

Despite a fast and popular campaign, lasting 21 days from a standing start (when the very first rumour of the threatened closure came out), Southwark Council finally voted to close the much loved Livesey Museum for Children. Its doors shut on 29th February 2008 (thought I'd add the year as some of you might have foolishly imagined the courtesy of a year's grace).

The process has been scandalous: A lack of detailed research to inform their decision, lack of consultation with and support for the staff, lack of information to the public and regular users, and the use of substantially wrong statistics to assess its value and to brief councillors.

One high point was the children's delegation before the Council meeting on the 20th Feb. We were really proud of them for asking such articulate and challenging questions of Cllr Stanton. Another high point has been the enormous amount of press coverage, which presses on as the story continues.

The story continues because the Council has agreed to discuss with us the option of the Friends forming a trust and seeking funds to run the Museum. Key points to negotiate are that we would need to be able to use the building and that Southwark wouldn't sell it, as they have said they plan to do, and that we would be able to access the Southwark art and heritage collections for use in displays. There have already been three approaches from good charities to support this cause, so we are hopeful. A lot of hard work will follow and there is a danger that we will feel deflated once the Museum shuts. If anyone has expertise, time, ideas, contacts and resources to help please get in touch.

Thanks for your support

Bridget McKenzie (for the Friends)

[cherry]

I just can't believe this at all! As others have said, this Museum is a fantastic resource for children in a very deprived area.

If the council's argument is that not enough people use it then why not spend a little on publicity?

I had not even heard of the museum until today and I have young children and live in the borough - sadly we've missed the boat as it closes for good at 5pm today. Very sad.

I've signed the online petition and I'll be emailing Tessa Jowell, I hope lots of others do the same.

[snorky]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I just noticed this post on the facebook group

> from an independent evaluator of the Livesey

>

> "I had..the great pleasure and privilege of

> evaluating the Livesey's.. 'Myths and Legends' in

> 2006. The report..contributed to...'Telling tales-

> a guide to developing effective storytelling

> programmes for museums', thus proving that the

> Museum is at the forefront of its field...The

> Livesey attracts families and school visitors of

> diverse backgrounds and the Museum serves as a

> positive and vibrant, and very important meeting

> point... Building on the UN convention of the

> rights of the child, Children's museums are

> pioneers and essential in the field of...

> developing innovative and creative informal

> learning spaces...There are too few Children's

> museums in the UK, and by closing the Livesey...,

> this list will be even shorter... many young

> Londoners will be denied the opportunity to, in a

> dedicated and unique space with expert

> facilitators, develop their curiosity,

> imagination, teamwork and language skills." Emily

> Johnsson

Emily...Hmmmmm...the pieces of the jigsaw are beginning to fit together

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'm not that great but I could probably help with anyone that did want to bring the decision to close the museum to the High Court for a judicial review. It's not a very difficult process but I think the court fees are about ?400 tho. Does anyone know if the people fighting the closure want to do that? We would need as much evidence as we could get that the decision makers acted either illegally, irrationally or against proper procedure. It seems that this may have been the case. Maybe looking at the levels of funding in different areas for less worthy projects might be something that could help. Anyway the judicial review has to be brought within 3 months of the decision.

I do judicial review appplications against Home Office immigration decisions at the moment (fairly successfully I might add!), so I'd be happy to have a go at this with some help.

[bawdy-nan]

I'm sure any help would be appreciated. I think the campaigners are concentrating on trying to persuade the concil not to sell the building - it was donated to the people of Southwark by George Livesey. There seems to be plenty of interest from the museums community as well as other funders such that it seems perfectly possible to run the museum independently.

Southwark say that they haven't factored any capital receipt into their budget planning but its unclear what they are planning.

Whatever the arguments about closing the museum (council blame govt cuts to local authority funding) Southwark have always acknowledged its excellence. With a realistic prospect of creating an independent trust to run the museum or finding a bigger sibling museum to incorporate it, it would be spiteful of the council to refuse to enable this to happen

You might get in touch with Bridget McKenzie via the facebook group orthere is now also a google groups as the email correspondence had got a bit out of control. If you go to google groups and then search for friends of the livesey you'll find it. You'll need to email one of teh group admins to join.

[livesey]

Hi East Dulwich

I'm active in the Friends of Save the Livesey. We need a solictor/ lawyer with property law experience who can help with conveyancing. Please contact us via the Google group if you can help.

Please join the Google group or email [email protected] (sorry its so long and not linked properly.

Thanks

[nicola.prior]

Yes we do indeed need a property lawyer, but as we said at the meeting yesterday, please can we stress that we are looking for someone pro bono, at least pro tem?

[bawdy-nan]

There has since been a request for a surveyor to assist on a pro bono basis. The friends group is negotaiting with the council for the lease of the building and need help to assess the council's offers / proposals. If anyone can help or knows a firm that does community pro bono work please contact the friends via the google or facebook group (see contact details above)

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Hi click on ths link for a list of solicitors that do property law. Click on the link to each solicitor to get all their details. Some do legal aid, so may do pro bono, or you may be able to persuade one of the others to fight for the museum.