The Livesey Museum faces closure

[mightyroar]

I know this museum isnt in ED, but it's pretty close and I know many many ED families who visit. It's a fantastic, free, hands-on museum for children on Old Kent Road and it faces closure

please write to Tessa Jowell and sign the online petition.

http://www.liveseymuseum.org.uk/

[macroban]

Sad news, but look on the bright side, it seems you can get Danielle Steel books and Westlife CDs at Dulwich Library.

Welcome to the world of Southwark Leisure.

[bawdy-nan]

Thats terrible. I notice that they are also planning to close the Cuming Museum which, as far as I can see, has just had a major refurbishment.

[Scruffy Mummy]

Typical behaviour for Southwark Council - focus on a few 'flashy' libraries/one-stop shops like the new Surrey Quays centre and I guess now East Dulwich and then close lots of smaller, less flashy but well used and valuable resources like the smaller libraries in 'The Blue' and the children's museums. Totally outrageous.

[TillieTrotter]

Ah, spent many a happy day there with my kids when they were of the age. Shame:(

[dulwichmum]

I know Tillie, but indeed, I have visited The Livesey of late, and it is in need of major refurbishment. Indeed, it smells of cabbage. They should be spending money on The Livesey not closing it!

[TillieTrotter]

Tis true DM, I must say that my kids where of the age many moons ago now and it needed sprucing and alot of funding then.

[macroban]

More funding than the cost of Bellenden Village's new lamp posts?

[George682]

the Livesey had a few problems with unfortunate smells a while back but that was a local drain problem, not to do with the museum itself! I live locally and go there all the time with my kids it doesn't need a load of extra funding as they do everything on really small budgets but as it's an old building it needs some tlc and the council own the building. The exhibitions are great what it needs is infratstructure support from the council to maintain the building.

[pk]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ah, spent many a happy day there with my kids when

> they were of the age. Shame:(

what ages are catered for at the livesey?

[bawdy-nan]

The Livesey caters for children under 12. It is superb. It was written up as part of the Guardian's series on family friendly museums in 2006. Apparently the council moved closer to forcing it to close this morning (according to an email from Cllr Andrew Pakes)

From the Guardian:

3. Livesey Museum

In London's Old Kent Road, squeezed between high-rise housing estates and derelict parking lots, is a real gem. The Livesey, a children's museum for the under-12s, boasts that it is "fully hands-on"; there isn't a Do Not Touch sign in sight. But you won't find any computer interactives either. Livesey is low-tech: open rickety wooden drawers and peer inside to find a remarkable object or put on a shadow puppet show.

In their current exhibition, Myths and Legends, you can clamber into a tepee or on board a mythical ship, or enter a giant dragon's lair ("the biggest ever seen in Peckham"). The Livesey philosophy is to involve children at every stage of their productions: a panel of young people decide on the content of the exhibitions.

Local schoolchildren tend to use it as a quiet place to do their homework and the handful of staff tolerate behaviour that would elicit loud "tuts" in any other museum. My own toddlers, suffering in the inner-city heat, stripped off in the courtyard and ran about naked, jumping into the pretend pool. The Livesey has simply reached places other museums haven't - into the hearts and minds of the local kids, who regard it as their own.

Myths and Legends runs until August 26.

? Livesey Museum, 682 Old Kent Road, London SE15; www.liveseymuseum.org.uk; 0207-635 5829

[pk]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Livesey caters for children under 12. It is

> superb. It was written up as part of the

> Guardian's series on family friendly museums in

> 2006. Apparently the council moved closer to

> forcing it to close this morning (according to an

> email from Cllr Andrew Pakes)

>

> From the Guardian:

> 3. Livesey Museum

> In London's Old Kent Road, squeezed between

> high-rise housing estates and derelict parking

> lots, is a real gem. The Livesey, a children's

> museum for the under-12s, boasts that it is "fully

> hands-on"; there isn't a Do Not Touch sign in

> sight. But you won't find any computer

> interactives either. Livesey is low-tech: open

> rickety wooden drawers and peer inside to find a

> remarkable object or put on a shadow puppet show.

>

> In their current exhibition, Myths and Legends,

> you can clamber into a tepee or on board a

> mythical ship, or enter a giant dragon's lair

> ("the biggest ever seen in Peckham"). The Livesey

> philosophy is to involve children at every stage

> of their productions: a panel of young people

> decide on the content of the exhibitions.

>

> Local schoolchildren tend to use it as a quiet

> place to do their homework and the handful of

> staff tolerate behaviour that would elicit loud

> "tuts" in any other museum. My own toddlers,

> suffering in the inner-city heat, stripped off in

> the courtyard and ran about naked, jumping into

> the pretend pool. The Livesey has simply reached

> places other museums haven't - into the hearts and

> minds of the local kids, who regard it as their

> own.

>

> Myths and Legends runs until August 26.

>

> ? Livesey Museum, 682 Old Kent Road, London SE15;

> www.liveseymuseum.org.uk; 0207-635 5829

thanks looks like i should head down there while i still can

[bawdy-nan]

this refers to an exhibition from 2006 - the current one is about maps:

current exhibition

The council are meeting on Tuesday to discuss / ratify this ... the closure that is, not the exhibition. All the ED councillors are Lib Dems and, as I understand it, (reluctantly) in favour ofthe closures. I wrote to Richard Thomas and had a reply which said, essentially, that he was sad but it had to happen.

[Scruffy Mummy]

Yeah, typical of the Lib Dems - it's not flash, not glam - cut it.

[bawdy-nan]

Yes indeed. Closing it will apparently save ?140,000 which seems very small for something so marvellous and well used.

The council is supposed to be looking for "value for money" and, in my opnion, this is extraordinary value for money. The museum say they reach 20,000 people a year.

I just had a quick look on the council website as I was interested in fidning out just how much the executive allow themselves in allowances - oddly enough, I couldn't find anything.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

but I bet it's more than ?140,000 a year

[bawdy-nan]

Yes, but 140000 a year is tiny for the value it gives.

It seems to me its a lean organisation that is well and imaginatively run providing high quality services to a wide range of local people from all walks of life and income groups. It also has a national significance and is an example of excellent practice.

The council is trying to svae several million pounds because, it says, the government have provided a lower settlement this year. From here, taking inexpensive toys from chidlren looks like cynical poitical posturing.

[bawdy-nan]

Message from the Livesey group on facebook: Subject: Lobbying Southwark

Welcome to all new supporters of the Livesey Museum for Children. Southwark have published their budget report now, confirming that Livesey is definitely intended for closure. They say that they have done a detailed appraisal, although they haven't consulted staff or users, and there is no information on how they reached their conclusion that the Livesey is not cost-effective, high performing and fit for purpose. It will be very unlikely that the Council will vote against the budget plan, because of the Lib Dem/Tory majority. The votes consist of the Executive decision on Tuesday 12th and the full Council on the 20th. However, it is important not to assume this is a done deal but to continue to express your views and ask questions, if only to highlight the value of the Livesey and the kind of community engagement and creative experiential learning it represents.

So, what can you do?

- Show up at Southwark Town Hall on Tuesday 12th to ask the Councillors questions as they arrive (children welcome, of course).

- Continue to communicate with Councillors & MP's. If you have already sent an initial message to them, you could ask now for more information on how they reached their conclusion about why the Livesey is not cost-effective.

- Continue to spread the word about this campaign

- Share ideas for the campaign and your experiences of the Livesey on the group page.

[macroban]

The latest document which I have seen explaining the Southwark Council 2008/09 budget contextis here. Does anyone have an update of this or an alternative more recent document?

I don't think it is a matter of whether the Livesey is "cost-effective, high performing and fit for purpose", but that there will just not be enough money not matter how good it is (and it is).

If the Livesey does get the money then something else will have to be stopped, closed, or reduced. If we say the Livesey should get the money then as citizens we should also be saying what should not get money. That is the reality of the 2008/09 budget.

I would hope however that the Livesey can be placed in moth balls to await better times.

[franglaisia]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ernative more recent document?

>

> I don't think it is a matter of whether the

> Livesey is "cost-effective, high performing and

> fit for purpose", but that there will just not be

> enough money not matter how good it is (and it

> is).

>

> If the Livesey does get the money then something

> else will have to be stopped, closed, or reduced.

> If we say the Livesey should get the money then as

> citizens we should also be saying what should not

> get money. That is the reality of the 2008/09

> budget.

Please don't fall for this. The Council will always find money for what it wants to do. If a developer has targeted a piece of land, or someone in the council is looking for money for their own pet project, they will try to close anything in the way, regardless of its non monetary value or usefulness. They try to do it quietly first. If someone kicks up enough fuss, and there is evidence of overwhelming public opposition, they then come up with a "public consultation" exercise. I watched them spend more money on "public consultations" trying to close down a small, hugely valuable facility, than the facility cost itself to run for several years.

This pattern has been repeated over the years regardless of what brand of politician was in power at the time. Labour criticised the Tories for it until they got in and then did exactly the same themselves - although if anything their arrogancce and thuggery towards anyone who got in the way was worse.

Would recommend taking note of the names of the council officer/s who are recommending the closure, the Councillor/s who are most enthusiastic about it and the name of the company the land is planned to be sold to.

[macroban]

> Please don't fall for this.

That would have been my line until recently.

I believe that 2008/09 will be different and that giving the Livesey ?140k will mean taking it away from elsewhere.

[bawdy-nan]

I had a look at the latest accounts for Southwark which are available online at their website. I think they could easily solve their deficit by a better control of their agency staff for example. The spend is truly shocking.

I think there is also some political hoo hah to do with southwark council trying to demonstrate that it is all the fault of the government.

The fact is that with a little extra investment they could probably find a way for the museum to become independent (sustainable!). ?140,000 a year is relaly a very small amount of money to raise and whilst Southwrak should be investing in it - there are lots of possibilities for other ays of running it.

As far as I can see it delivers very many of the objectives that the council itself says it wants to see realised:

Nick Stanton (leader of the council) says he's extremely keen on: ?Making Southwark a world class quarter of our world city? stating that he will:

- build on the achievements of our schools

- continue to rebuild and transform Southwark

- he is personally committed to continue this drive towards making Southwark a modern, creative and safe place to live and work.

- make Southwark cleaner and greener

- work with the police to tackle crime and the causes of crime

the closure of local museums makes no sense at all.

Incidentally it was at the livesey Museum where I first encountered some of Southwark's extraordinary colletcion of 20th century prints - as far as I know they aren;t display anywhere else.

[bawdy-nan]

The campaign to save the livesey appeared in the

guardian yesterday

[Michael Palaeologus]

How much is going to be spent on new fencing for Goose Green? The existing fencing isnt ideal, but not an eye-sore - surely the Livesey is a bigger priority?

[bawdy-nan]

Apparently not. The ocuncil said it had to decide between the livesey and leisure centres and libraries and given the borough's obesity and literacy problems they decided to close the Livesey - bizarre logic.

They also confirmed that they intend to auction off the building. The building was built and donated to the "people of Southwark" by George Livesey a local businessman and benefactor.

The museum offers terrific value for money already and has room to do more and is in a part of the borough with few facilities.