Peckham Rye Zippos Circus & Protest

[Tom Micklewright]

Evening,

Just came back from a protest that was happening outside the Zippo Circus Peckham Rye.

The protest was against the treatment of horses (making them stand on two legs gives them hip and tendon damage / pain).

The scary stuff was actually the lack of freedom that there was to protest. There was a group of 6 police men with a van. They were all very friendly - however our freedom of speech amounted to:

- no banners - no pictures - protesting in an area away from the entrance in a 5 metre by 5 metre space - the threat of instant arrest if a member of public complained about us / said they had been harassed or disturbed.

For someone who would never wish to be arrested or cause any disturbance I was quite shocked by this and left immediately - I wouldn't want to risk losing my job, even though I strongly believe animals shouldn't be abused for human profit.

Any sensible thoughts on this?

Thomas

[buckleypink]

I can understand where these protesters are coming from. For example, I believe fox hunting is banned in this country as well as bull fighting in Spain. What I don't get is why now? Zippos Cirus has been entertaining audiences around this side for years. Seems out of the blue to me.

[Tom Micklewright]

Heres a picture of one of the horses, incase you haven't seen a horse before.

[buckleypink]

Wow! Thanks for sharing this....

[Loz]

If you aren't happy than make a complaint to the police complaints commission. I hope you got the number/s of the policemen.

But I have to say, I think you should be kept away from the entrance. There is a line between protest and harassment, and parking your protest at the entrance counts as the latter in my book. But I am very surprised they can have a 'no banners' rule, especially if you were away from the actual area that the circus has rented.

[Mrs TP]

Are you sure that is a horse?

[Loz]

You call that a horse? This is a horse...

http://static.fancydress.com/resources/ecommerce/images/products/121/1/img1121/product-enlarged.jpg

[northlondoner]

Won't someone think of the children

[Jeremy]

It's quite right that you were kept away from the entrance. Loz is right, chanting/shouting while people entered would be bordering on harassment.

I totally respect your right to protest, and I admire the way you take a stand against something you feel is wrong, but at the same time you have to realise that most people don't have a problem with performing horses in a circus.

[LauraW]

It's frightening the extent to which the right to protest has been systematically attacked in this country. Did the police say they had issued a Section 30?

If I get down there tomorrow I may do so as a legal observer. Clearly the police saw this protest as a soft target for their threats.

[Lou Lou Lounge]

Wow so many people have time to and love a good moan about things which should be poitive on here.....local butchers, children' entertainment, shops closing, shops opening7!!!

I say supprt the local shops, support local kida entertainment, etc

[reeko]

Is there much of a difference between horses performing in a circus and dressage as an olympic sport? Come Brazil horses will need to be air freighted over, which from the little I know (knowledge taken from a a 1980s TV movie) they find very stressful. Where to draw the line?

[Saffron]

Where are you getting your information that Circus performance causes tendon damage?

Should people also protest against the Lipizzaner horses?

What about military/royal horses? They commonly develop spavin and degenerative joint disease. [information presented in a lecture series on veterinary imaging techniques at University of Wales, Aberystwyth: Institute of Rural Sciences, 2007]

Equids in Britain, whether they be working animals or companions, have some of the highest legal standards of care of any equids in the world. If you really want to make a difference to the lives of equids, why not spend your time and money volunteering for an organisation which treats working animals overseas in poor communities, where the lives of animals also make a difference to the lives of people? Seriously, working horses in Britain have an easy life compared to these: http://www.wspa.org.au/wspaswork/workinghorses/Default.aspx . Put in your energy where it will really make a difference. xx

[LadyDeliah]

So are you going to protest outside Dulwich Riding School? The Zippo horses are well exercised and look to be in fantastic health, unlike horses at other establishments.

[steveo]

What bollocks. God knows how many farm animals are kept in inhumane conditions. A billion animals a year are slaughtered in the UK.

A few foxes and some horses? I dunno, maybe a sense of proportion is required.

I might regret this post.

[Tom Micklewright]

Thanks guys.

Use of horses in sport / circus etc is the least of 'animal rights' worries, but still something I would take action on. Steveo's argument is like saying why bother acting against graffiti when we have people stabbed to death?

No police there today, and people flyering against the circus - perhaps the police just wanted to make their presence felt early on.

I would never chant or shout at a member of the public, thats not the way to get a message across and is disrespectful.

Not sure re. Section 30, what is that? The police said they do have the power to ban the protest outright, but were there to 'facilitate it.'

Thanks for the discussion,

Tom

[Alan Medic]

As a matter of interest Tom, what's your view of people riding horses?

[cactus]

The Zippo's horses do appear to be in good condition and therefore I would assume they are well cared for.

However what bothers me, is the amount of time they spend on the road in trailers, being transported from one venue to

another, and therefore they have limited freedom to be outdoors, grazing in paddocks.

Then again, is this any worse than race horses, eventers, hunters, show ponies, etc being transported from one competition/meeting to another. Not sure.

[steveo]

Tom: Is it because horses have nice fur and long eyelashes? What about all those ants that get trodden on?

cactus: You're right to be not sure

[bluecanary]

Everything seems to be in order.

http://www.zipposcircus.co.uk/code.html

[Loz]

I must say, this thread has been a great ad for Zippo's circus. Apparently they are there until the 18th September. Book early - tonight was a sell-out.

[Alan Medic]

I'm not sure horses need our protection. When I were a lad, in the garage of my best friends house someone had painted on the wall ' horse sense is that faculty which prevents horses betting on humans'.

[LadyDeliah]

Sorry Tom, I think you missed the boat with British circuses. They cleaned up their act a couple of decades ago. Nothing to complain about with Zippos in my opinion. I think you picked your fight badly in this instance.

[DJKillaQueen]

Thomas, Zippo's horses are extremely well cared for. Police horses work and travel more than Zippo's horses.

Two years ago I had the misfortune to run into a protestor as I went to the circus. I gave extremely good pointers as to why the horses at the circus are not being subjected to cruelty, in a polite manner. As I walked away the ignorant and rude woman had the audacity to say to me 'thank you for supporting cruelty to animals.' I then gave the stupid woman a dressing down on what defines cruelty (heard by all in the park no doubt) and suggested she go and stand outside Brixton nick where they keep horses (or at least used to) and try her luck there.

There is no doubt that creulty to animals exists but these protestors are extremists who quite frankly have picked the circus because it's an easy target.

What does your photo show Thomas? A well groomed horse in a stable, because believe it or not that's what most horses sleep in. What your photo doesn't show is the fenced paddock area behind the stable where the horses have time every day to run around freely. Have you ever been to a riding school Thomas? Or any kind of farm where horses are kept? Stables and a paddock is pretty common accomodation for horses. And horses that train for dressage for example, carry out way more complex training and routines that what you'll see at Zippo's circus (as others have posted on this thread). The horses at most, travel twice a week (again not very much by the standards of working horses). Get a sense of perspective for goodness sake.

I will be going to the circus tm. Maybe I'll protest against stupid protests ;)

[Earl Aelfheah]

If the horses are so happy what's with the long faces?