Thinking about a nanny !!?

[Mum2be]

Wow who ever would suggest being a cleaner is a easier job than child care , are you serious ! What kind of responsibility does a cleaner have ? Since when did a mop have a temper tantrum ? That really is a shocking statement ! Do you have children? It's 10 times harder with someone else's

And sorry I ment ?10 ph for more than one child which I think it says is the going rate on simply child care that's why I said that it's not what I charge nor ever have expected

[Mum2be]

Just saying

tired Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> V good point Katgod - but cleaners only do a few

> hours a week and they have to make their salaries

> up by visiting multiple houses over the week,

> traveling between them etc. Usually, the more work

> there is in a job, the less the hourly rate is.

>

> Now I know I am at risk of causing a riot on here

> with my next statement but.... arguably cleaning

> is a harder job because it is extremely labour

> intensive, involves cleaning yucky bathrooms etc

> and is no fun at all.

[lildeakin84]

As a local nanny getting paid less than the ?10 net most nannies are on, I can assure you I know what most of my friends earn, and actually ?10 is pretty average.

I also think the idea that you shouldn't feel obliged to FEED your nanny ridiculous and petty - we look after the most important people in your lives and you are

Picking over the

Price of a loaf of bread and a bit of ham or cheese for a sandwich.

I'm sure there are some mercenary nannies out there locally, bit

Generally we work long hours with demanding situations and take full child responsibility for your children. I look after 3 children under 3 over 53 hours in a week and I'm blooming good at

My job. I take

My children to various groups, trips tO cultural and

Adventurous locations in and around London plus deal with potty training, teaching self feeding and

Helping develop phonics and mathematics. It is more than just a job for myself and most nannies out there do I find it insulting that some of the opinions on here that we are worth less than the cleaner - smacks of skewed priorities to me. And to suggest some nannies are unemployable by witnessing them at a

Toddler group is also pretty generalising - perhaps I myself are one of these nannies, and I'd be horrified to be considered so 'poor' by someone who sees me possibly an hour a week.

And with regards to OFSTED - yes parents should pay it - having OFSTED means nothing to a nanny aside from increased employability. YOU get the benefits not us so why should we

Pay ?103 every year so parents

Save? Ridiculous.

Most people who know me know I'm pretty calm and levelheaded and

Certainly non-confrontational, but I find many of the views and generalIsations on this thread offensive. I would advise most parents to try being a nanny. It's not the same

Having them on the weekend, I can assure you. It's hard and physically and

Emotionally draining Somedays but it's rewarding hence why we do it. But just

Because we are employed in a

'care and service' role does not mean we

Should be given any less credit or merit than those of you working in high powered positions in offices. We are still 'emplyees' after all, not 19th century 'staff' so please think about your remarks before offending an entire Group of people.

[lildeakin84]

Apologies fOr typos am on the phone

[LondonMix]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that nannies should be paid less than cleaners. The way nannies are paid is confusing for many who don't actually use them- as this thread has illustrated. Most parents were simply pointing out that cleaners do not make more than even inexperienced nannies for a multitude of reasons (limited working hours / gross vs. net pay quoting, sick-pay and holiday pay etc).

Also, I think that all the parents who have posted on here about their experiences have been very polite and never suggested that nannies shouldn't be treated like employees and while it may be unpleasant for nannies to read about certain experiences some parents have had, there is nothing wrong with sharing them. Honestly,, people have jumped on this thread and made all sorts of inaccurate accusations about us parents (that the wages being discussed were less than minimum living standard, we want to pay them less than cleaners, that certain posters were not willing to pay statutory SPP) and I think the parents have remained polite as they have made the many necessary corrections.

To be frank, I can?t take anyone seriously who asserts that parents suggesting that it may be possible to pay a nanny less than 38k a year gross salary (10 net per hour) is treating nannies like Victorian servants or that certain add-ons may be negotiable as with all jobs. Sharing the full wage range for nannies of between 26k up to 38k will result in more nannies getting employed as without this information, anyone earning less than 50k a year (the salary a parent needs to make to pay a nanny 38k a year out of their take home pay just to break-even) might think that this childcare option is not viable when they very well may be able to afford it.

Nannies on the forum often respond to discussions regarding nanny pay with the refrain ?you can?t put a price on childcare?, and that is so incredibly unfair. Nannies themselves very much put a price on childcare and parents should not be made to feel guilty about wanting to discuss pay issues honestly and openly. Every element of choosing childcare is very daunting and emotional for parents and we should be allowed to guide and support one another without being attacked.

[dulwichgirl2]

Londonmix, Wow. Beautifully put. Logically, persuasively and eloquently argued.

[KattyKit]

I have found this a really interesting thread as someone who has a nanny and currently pays less than ?10 net and LondonMix makes some really good points. I certainly don't see any threads which are offensive nor which compare nannies to 19th century service staff.

Lildeakin84- Openly discussing pay is not devaluing what a nanny does at all, but their pay has to be comparable with other caring jobs. ?10 an hour net is approx ?13 ish gross which more than a junior doctor earns and they ( as do nurses) pay their own professional registration fees, which is essentially what ofsted registration is.

I simply do not believe that that anything less than ?10 net is below market wage.

Kirsten

[lildeakin84]

I think most of you will find that I actually wrote I am one of the nannies out

There who is paid less than thr

'average' and merely stated that I know from other

Nannies I know locally that what the first many poster put forward was in fact a pretty average and honest suggestion of what local nannies are paid.

My gripe was NOT criticising what parents earn (after all we are in a recession and many aren't

In a position to offer that sort of money) I am part of a nanny share which considering I am paid under the average a actually works out cheaper than a childminder

Or a nursery locally. What I didn't like

About this thread was users like 'tired' making suggestions that tho gs like feeding your nanny should be negotiable! I mean seriously - that was an utterly ridiculous statement to make. And I stand by what I said about parents

Paying OFSTED costs - they should the benefit is to them not to us. A nanny gains nothing from being OFSTED registered and unlike with doctors etc it isn't mandatory do most nannies are

Only on the register to give parents the pre taxable

Pay rate. This is only fair and ?103 a year is nothing compared to the yearly saving.

I also continue to resent the various threads that have appeared on the forum about nannies abilities - thr parent who made comment about seeing nannies at one of her toddler groups and

Finding them unemployable is only one of many comments I have

Seen over the years denigrating us as a profession, in fact I remember one thread a while back where a

Parent basically said why should she pay her nanny to go out for coffee and

Play with toys?!! Maybe that gives you a better understanding of why the discussion of nanny salary, ending up not as just a black and white discussion, but yet agaIn compares us unfavourably to other professions, groups or individuals makes me cross. It's not just today in this thread that offensive comments Have been made. And forum members trying to be provocative by saying that arguably a

Cleaner has the messier, harder job doesn't help either!

Don't get me wrong I understand how hard it is for families

out there right now and asking for advice is a great idea. What I didn't like was how

One nanny offered advice (which I was merely backing up by stating that as far as I know locally she's pretty dead on in her suggestions), turned into forum members like 'tired' imPlying that she was lying and nannies are having you all on by asking top whack when in fact parents should pSlay less and even question other things they

Should be paying for! I mean seriously - are you honesty telling me you think it's plausible to suggest to your nanny you won't provide any food whilst she is in your home? To me that just sounded petty and is what I made

The '19th century' comment in regards to! My families

Have

Certainly never treated me that way and as I say to me nannying is more than a job.

I know lots of nannies aren't

Perfect, and I agree that you do need to be

Careful when choosing one, butOn behalf of us ED nannies I felt someone should stick up for us for once ! Yes, we know there is a recession - most of us would be willing to discuss shares or other options to help out families out, but remember we AREN'T this lazy bunch of rip merchants who shouldn't be fed or ever fall Ill (seriously - toddlers

Are the MOST infectious blighters I know), most of us love and thrive in our work and take pleasure in our parents knowing their children are

Happy and

Nurtured in our care - whatever the salary.

Mum2be was right - ?10 is pretty

Average and yes I'm sure many of you don't pay that but please don't suggest

We are 'trying it on' when actually all that is being offered is the advice that the OP sought. Debate is debate but posters like 'tired' made it personal and it's only fair the 'other Side' gets the chance to answer as well.

I respect what all of the above have said and responded to my earlier post and I hope this clarifies my earlier statements about precisely what made me want to reply! I actually have a

Great and honest relationship with lots of mums locally and

Think you are all hard working loonies doing all hours to support and provide the best for your families. So don't feel it's a personal attack on what you can as

Can't afford - it

Certainly isn't - merely a rebuttal to other less favourable opinions of us!!

Once

Again excuse my appalling typos I'm on the phone - blooming autocorrect!!

Xx

[VanessaPMR]

I must say this thread has inadvertently become quite the advertisement for Nurseries.

I guess the other thing one needs to think about before hiring a Nanny is: as a parent do you feel able to deal with the inevitable conflict that exists between employer and employee, in your home and over your children...

[etta166]

VanessaPMR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I must say this thread has inadvertently become

> quite the advertisement for Nurseries.

> I guess the other thing one needs to think about

> before hiring a Nanny is: as a parent do you feel

> able to deal with the inevitable conflict that

> exists between employer and employee, in your home

> and over your children...

Now, now! Just as nannies should not judge all employers by the comments of a single employer posting in this thread, neither should all nannies be judged in the same way.

Not every nanny suits every family, and not all familes suit all nannies. You just have to find the right partnership, and then these conflicts should not arise. Confilict over pay and contrat terms is not "inevitable", it is a sign that something is not working the way it should be.

[VanessaPMR]

etta166, you are right! I was responding a little too quickly to one of the posts in particular... sorry.

The right Nanny with the right family is the childcare dream, no doubt.

I do think, however, that when things go wrong (which they wont always do, thankfully) the implications are much more difficult to deal with when you are talking about an employee whose workplace is your home and whose job task is: bringing up your children.

[lildeakin84]

I imagine 'vanessa' that I am the inadvertent advert for nurseries as sticking up for nannies appears to have out many noses out of joint. This was NOT the Intention as stated before - I have an EXCELLENT working relationship with all the parents of the children I look after - I was merely supporting the poster

'mum2be' With regards to the tone of the responses she received for offering the advice the OP sought. I know many many nannies locally and

Was standing by what she said about costs.

As for any other remarks that may have offended any parents out

There I apologise - I am not trying to offend merely point out that nannies have feelings too and to be discussed as a profession in terms that

Suggest we are 'having you on' and 'nobody earns that' alongside suggestions from others about the standards of our work being shoddy or not hard work - it's hurtful and as a

General rule - untrue.

I agree - for many ?10+ is expensive and for many families locally, unrealistic, but the fact remains that's it IS pretty average across the wider area, so neither 'mum2be' nor I are having anyone on. But regardless of whether parents feel we are worth it or prefer to put their children in nursery (which having come from a nursery background I can assure you affords your children much less attention for similar or more money), the fact stands that 9-10 ph net is reality and THAT is what I was trying to get across.

I feel no matter what I say on this thread now, many have made their minds up and taken offended where none was intended (unlike

Comments

Like 'feeding a nanny is negoyiable' and 'arguably a cleaner has a

Harder job' which were deliberately provocative), so I take my leave and hope some of you realise that just

Because we work in your home we are still a profession the same as anyone else and

Deserve the same respect.

[etta166]

I'm pretty sure that the right nursery and the right child are also a dream combination. Each different childcare set up has its own advantages and no one route is the "right" one.

I fortunately haven't had to deal with any employer/employee problems with my nannyshare, or any "customer service" issues with a nursery. I imagine that they would both be very stressful.

[dulwichgirl2]

Let's be clear - a market operates in this regard as with any other job. When nannies or any other provider of services is in short supply relative to demand, he of she will be able to charge more and have more fees etc reimbursed. It is all about the strength of each side's negotiating position.

One could say quite reasonably that Ofsted registration makes the nanny more attractive to employers so he or she should be happy to pay it.

[DiGio]

Hi Everyone,

This is a very interesting topic and for my family, who is in search of a nanny at the moment, is very useful.

All nannies I spoke quote ?10 per hour. My family is multi-cultural, so we consider different nannies, speaking one or another language, and not knowing English is also acceptable. I happened to speak to some who are illegal and they quote this ridiculous price as well.

By just doing simple math, ?10/per hour NET makes ?2383.33 net a month on top of which I have to pay NI and Income tax. Most of the nannies have first aid and police check, and some of them have other certificates which are obtained by completing part-time college courses.

I earn NET slightly more, but the variance would go to pay nanny's taxes and NI contribution. And I have a master degree from the red-brick university, I am a mid-level manager and though I do not change anyone's nappies I do work hard to be able to provide my child with home that it has and education in the future.

Why on Earth I have to pay nanny's food? My employer does not repay me cost of my lunches. If I am to pay a nanny a salary which is considered to be quite high on the UK level, why cannot she afford her own sandwich? I am by no means scrooge over the food, but some nannies eat just a loaf of bread and a bit of ham and cheese as someone stated here, some nannies DO eat a lot. I have had 2 unfortunate nannies that were eating more than my husband and I used to consume during the whole week. One of the nannies used to bring some food, cook herself a lunch and dinner while child sleeps, mess up the whole kitchen, pack her dinner and take it home. After 10 hours of my work and commuting I was coming home to find my messy kitchen and clean after the nanny.

It is true that nanny's job is not the easiest one, but then do not forget, that we parents have to deal with nanny's upbringing, their educational and cultural level, listen to their views as even though we are their employers, the relations between nanny & parent is slightly different than any other employment relations. We have to deal with cleanliness of the nanny and sometimes turn a blind eye when find dirty baby clothes in the wardrobe so that she treats the baby well while we are away and not in control of her actions.

Another point on average salary - most of nannies derive this amount from talking to each other. My previous nanny told me that it is a common practice among nannies to ask each other about the salaries, conditions they are treated and other benefits they get. Which is fair I think. But... it happens that the nannies that earn more look down to those who earn less, and encourage to go and ask for more. Nannies are human beings and some of them also add up a little extra to what they actually get or have - guess it is just a human nature.

And with regards to 19th century staff - when I watch period drama, I sometimes think that some mades live back then better than I do now - mades would make lady's hair and mend the dressing and there was some kitchen girl that cleaned the dishes and washed the floors. I am now in 21st century and do laundry, iron, cook and wash my dishes and floor all by myself. I don't think referring to nannies being treated as 19th century servants has any ground.

[DiGio]

I would not speak for all people of my professional background and if someone blames them I would not stand up and get offended. If people are unhappy it means something even if it is not related to myself personally.

Likewise, I cannot get why lildeakin84 is getting so gross over the parents' comments. If this is what they feel about their nannies why do YOU get insulted. If you think you are underpaid and very sure all of your friends earn ?10 and hour, why get frustrated and not go and search a higher salary - which is what we parents do when we cannot afford nannies that cost NET 10 quids/hour - we look for another job.

I do not doubt you are a good nanny and do all activities you describe in your posts and am envious of your employer, but for 1 nanny like you I see about 10 nannies dumping children in the buggy and sitting on the benches drinking coffee and discussing their salaries and gossiping about their employers and calling them names, every time I take my child out to the playground. Will you get offended for their behavior?

Just because you work in someone's home does not mean you are not employee like ourselves and why does it by default entitles you to the food I do not get. Again, I do not mind nannies eating in the house, but I do not understand your point on why you are entitled for it. I, myself, work in the office the building of which owned by the company's owner, but I do not have access to his food, sadly, and I never get offended my contract did not foresee free lunches.

Apart from my education on which I spent thousands of pounds, I still pursue certificates - again sometimes employers pay for them, sometimes I pay myself. By no means it is employers' duty, and even more, if I am to leave the cost will be taken off my salary on pro-rata basis. So why OFSTED is a parent's responsibility if it helps nannies to be more employable? I think this is something parties could discuss.

Without being personal, I think sticking up for all nannies out there, good or bad, and bring all these points has no ground.

[Saffron]

tired Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and just for the record, I said "over SSP", ie

> that SSP is payable but a whole day's salary for

> being off is discretionary.

>

>

Tired, thanks for coming back to clarify. It wasn't initally clear whether you were saying "over" in the sense of "regarding" SSP in general, or "over" in the sense of "above" a required minimun.

[SarahG]

As a nanny, I'd like to support lildeakin84

I'm on ?10 net an hour, which was the amount offered when I started my first job, upon my move to London, when I had no idea what I was expecting, it was more than I expected but having met other nannies it is not unusual. I'm am now on my 2nd and 3rd nannying jobs, both of which I'm on ?10 per hour net. One of them is a nannyshare.

It's an interesting point to note that nannying unlike many if not most other jobs doesn't offer anything in the way of promotional or career ladder prospects. From nannying, one may move to other jobs with 'better' prospects, as it were, but it's not like getting a promotion, or potential pay rises.

I'm not going to pick out points which have been made others, only to say I'm a little saddened to see such negative views about the salaries and other benefits which nannys may get. it is the parent's choice to have children, hire a nanny and keep working, also how much they offer to pay and what they offer contractually. It is your discretion if you wish to advertise for a minimum wage nannying job- if the going rate is so much lower than ?10 an hour, and we are all 'having you on', then you should still get applicants.

Nannying can be far harder than you imagine, not necessarily the care of the children, but the complex liaison with the parents and family members. Lovely as I'm in no doubt most families are, there can still be many awkward situations in the job of 'replacement parent'. Besides, the responsibility alone is worth a lot more, to me at least anyway.

Like anything, there's a spectrum of nannies- good to bad, and none of us as perfect all of the time, just like a parent. Please bare that in mind if you see us in the park or at a playgroup. Hopefully all we all want is the best for all 'our' children- which is certainly how I think of all the children I care for, past and present.

Sarah x

[montassa]

We had a nanny for 2 years and she was on ?10 net. We paid her NI and tax on top. That seemed to be the standard rate when we researched. She was looking after 2 children as part of a nanny share. I wouldn't have comprised on quality care, we worked it out to be better thank nursery costs. They are in your environment and its personal care.

She has now gone and our daughter has turned out beautifully and that in part is due to our nanny. She spent more time with our daughter than we did and ?10 per hour is worth paying. We now have another child and I am considering poaching her back from her new employer by upping her rate to ?11. I believe that to be a fair rate as it has been 3 years when we were paying her ?10. Add inflation and ?11 seems reasonable. We also had to give her paid holidays.

It wasn't cheap but totally worth it for peace of mind and a well brought up child with great manners and respect for others.

[Digbina]

>>>>>I would advise most parents to try being a nanny

I have to say, this comment made me laugh. Whatever do you think parents did before the nanny came along?

I agree with Tired, nanny wages are negotiable, just like any other profession. Imagine if I came on here and said, "in London, plumbers [or insert your preferred example here] earn ?13 per hour." Nonsense. Some do. Some don't. The nanny wage market is just like any other wage market. It depends on supply and demand, experience, qualifications, the nature of the role, short term or long term, full time or part-time (and what sort of part-time - wrap around or ad hoc days or school holiday care etc), special requirements (SN, fluency in another language. These all affect the wage.

I also think that this comment "I would be looking for a nanny that rates her self higher than ?6 or ?7 ph" reflects a very shaky grasp of economics. I would love to rate myself at around ?80K per annum But I don't get paid that!

I was subject to the tactic mentioned above when I made my very first post on this forum advertising a nanny job for ?7-9 gross per hour. A nanny 'helpfully' replied that in London, nannies earn ?10 net per hour. I don't know any other profession where a flat rate is presented as a requirement to employers regardless of experience, qualifications etc.

[tired]

lildeakin84 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But just

> Because we are employed in a

> 'care and service' role does not mean we

> Should be given any less credit or merit than

> those of you working in high powered positions in

> offices. We are still 'emplyees' after all, not

> 19th century 'staff' so please think about your

> remarks before offending an entire Group of

> people.

It is clear as day that nobody on this thread is saying anything about nannies being in any way less than people in any other job. I actually think it's the other way around - nannies who say that the 'average' wage is ?13ph gross (or ?35k per year on 50 hours) have an inflated view of the value of nannies as a group.

I quite agree with the other posters who have said that it is all a question of economics, demand and supply, calibre and negotiating position. That is how any profession or business sector works and that is why I find the whole nanny market so strange. In my profession, and any other sector, you see a job advertised, they tell you the salary they are offering and you either take it or you negotiate more based on your ability to prove you are worth more.

So how come nannies go to interviews and tell the employer what they will earn - net of tax?! I have never heard of an industry where the employee dictates the deal or where everything is described as 'standard'. After all, Lildeakin84 said she didn't want nannies to be treated any differently to any other professionals...

It's not just Ofsted that nannies expect to be paid on top, it's first aid courses, insurance and other costs. These things are necessary for the employer but they make the nanny employable so why should an employer be obliged to pay for the items which make the nanny attractive to them in the first place (and probably command a higher salary)? Yes, most parents do end up paying it but the point is that it should be up to each parent whether they do this and parents should not be feel pressurised into footing the bill for everything plus a huge nanny salary just because they are told 'that is the norm'.

Now, nannies and food is a whole other debate (see Mumsnet for thread after thread about nannies that eat unreasonable levels of food). I know, because i've had one. I'm not saying all nannies are like that, of course not, but new employers need to think about these things as it can end up being another ?100-150 a month on top of all the other costs. I'm not saying refuse to provide any food or to treat someone badly but perhaps a few parameters wouldn't harm. But like I said, it comes down to the individual and whether they are likely to take advantage.

Anyway, the point about food was just one example to let new employers know that everything is up for negotiation and not to think that these things are all 'standard'.

The comments about parents realising it's a hard job are absolutely laughable. Does whoever said that think that us working mums swan off to work all week and then bake cookies all weekend? Try fitting 5 says of guilt redemption, love and laundry into 2 days and then you will see phenomenal hard work.

Granted, being a nanny is not an easy job as jobs go. And yes, there are very tough elements to it (tantrums, nappies and cleaning up food for starters). But there are tough aspects of any job and the good outweighs the bad for a nanny IMO - daily walks out to the park, attending paid for classes and meeting friends most days. All with time to focus on doing just that - no admin, no housework or household management, no worrying what your husband will eat, all while manning a buzzing blackberry and looking after the kids at the same time.

So to make out that it is somehow disrespectful to pay a nanny less than ?35k per year (full time) is absurd. According to this link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8928786/Can-you-live-on-the-average-salary.html#, that's more than a midwife, a firefighter, a teacher and a police constable. It's more than a nurse, a junior doctor (as someone has already pointed out) and a trainee lawyer. Those are all jobs that are crammed full of responsibility as well, aren't they?

Given than nursery carers (which is where most nannies start out) get paid between ?14k and 18K per year (I think, but please correct me if I am wrong), it seems completely out of kilter that nannies expect double this amount once they get a nanny job, which is in many ways more pleasant than working in a nursery.

And to all the nannies that are earning ?10ph, I am sure you deserve every penny and are excellent at your jobs. But I am glad that this thread has caused a bit of debate as I am sure it will make very interesting reading for first time hirers.

[mrsS]

As someone that used to work as a nanny but have not done so for several years I'd like to point out the following.

Yes - it can seem very unfair that nannies earn more than for example midwifes, I agree - I earned more as a nanny then I do now doing the job I am qualified for with a masters degree (counselling). However, when I worked as a nanny I did work very long days without any breaks. Now I do 9-5 with a one hour (unpaid) lunch break. During my nannying-days I'd work from 8am -6.30 with no breaks. Most of these salaries in the article are based on a 40 hour week, so it's a bit unfair to compare them to a working week of a nanny as that would most of the time in my experience be more than 50 hours.

Few more things. Looking after someone else's children is very different from looking after your own kids. I am not saying that it's easier or more difficult, but very, very different.

I agree that quoting your salary in net is a bit weird, I don't know why this is the done thing and must be very confusing for everyone involved.

Paying for Ofsted and First Aid courses - it's obviously up to everyone as an individual to decide what to do about this, but in my experience my employers needed me to be Ofsted registered so that they could use their Childcare Vouchers. In order to be registered with Ofsted I needed to do a First Aid Course. The benefits were very much on my employer's side, and I did all the relevant courses on weekends which they paid for which in my opinion was fair!

Nannies might be seen to have an easy job. Doing the things that parents feel that they may be missing out on, taking kids to the park, attending classes, hanging out with 'friends' - or in my opinion, work colleagues! But remember it is a job for them, like any other job.

[shirkingworking]

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest! We're on our second full time nanny but have had a nanny for the last 5 years. The rate obviously depends on the job, hours and the individual. Much like all other jobs. It's not right to say that the starting salary is ?10 net an hour for any nanny job in East Dulwich. It's not true (nor would that be market rate). Some nannies obviously do get paid that (and some get paid more) and some nannies probably should be paid that well - it all depends on the market, doesn't it?

I totally agree that one of the reasons nannies have demanding jobs is that they often work 10 hour days. But junior doctors, nurses, midwives, police officers etc. all work longer hours, have (mostly) spent a great deal of money on degrees and accumulated debts and also work in caring and socially valuable jobs. Pretty sure they work more than 7 working hours a day and I know doctors work 12 hour shifts. (I think it takes 9 years to become a qualified GP for example, and you won't be paid over ?35k until you are qualified - and you'll have clocked up a mountain of debt too.) I think being paid ?35k a year as a nanny is a good wage - not to say nannies don't deserve it but it's way over the London living wage. Some nannies look after one baby, who might sleep for 2.5 hours a day. Some nanies look after children who might go to school/nursery for part of the day.

(Yes Tired, I think if you work in a nursery, you get between ?14k and ?18k per year ish.)

Looking after other people's children is different and harder in a lot of ways - but maybe easier in others? Looking after your own children, while juggling everything else, is pretty hectic too so us working mums do have an idea of what it's like. Plus we do have weekends and also take week's off when the nanny goes on holiday etc., so it's not as if we waft around in our suits and high heels without thinking about changing a nappy, wiping up baby-sick, rushing out for playdates, music classes, football, swimming, ballet etc. I totally love it but I'm permanently knackered.

Our first nanny is still a very close family friend. We see her a lot and miss her terribly.

We pay for Ofsted registration but I agree it makes the nanny more marketable so I can see why it not necessarily implicit in a nanny position that the employer will pay.

Personally, I'm not so worried about whether or not we provide food for the nanny but that's because we've never really had a problem. Nanny number 1 always brought her own lunch, despite me saying she could always help herself to whatever she wanted. Nanny number 2 helped herself to stuff in the fridge without asking which I was totally fine with. (I was slightly irritated when she had something special/expensive I'd been saving for supper with friends and she shared it with a nanny friend who'd come over for a playdate - however, that was my only food gripe!.)

Anyway, I think the upshot is that if you are thinking of employing a nanny for the first time, think about what sort of person you're looking for and what sort of things you'd like the nanny to do. And then it's probably wise to advertise on here and go to a few local agencies. You don't have to use the agencies (it's expensive if you do!) but it's useful to see the CVs of the nannies they are putting forward and the wages they are expecting so you have a feel for what's out there. If you only have one baby, I highly recommend a nannyshare if you can find the right family to share with. Hope it works out for the original poster!!

[LondonMix]

Trying to decide what is "fair" compared to other professions, be they cleaners or doctors, totally misses the point. Salaries are determined by supply and demand. This in turn is determined largely by what parents are able to pay and how nannying costs stack up against other child care options (including staying home, child minders, etc) which is demand vs. what alternative professions and pay a nanny could do with their skill set and how much more or less they would enjoy doing these other jobs which is supply.

The market will set the rate and during a recession, real wages for virtually all professions are declining.

[DiGio]

I believe the quality of service any employee provides does not depend on how one pays them. It does not matter whether I earn ?28k, ?50k or ?100k - I will work with the same level of responsibility, care and self-motivation, because this is in my character to deliver things as best I could do. Since I signed the contract, I expect myself to work hard.

Same with any nanny, if montassa paid ?10 net and now happy about the results, it is because she was lucky to find a nanny that did a perfect job with her kids, not because she paid ?10 and hour.

BTW, wanted to share a story a colleague told me over my nanny hunt. Very often, nannies take children for a play-dates, and very often, if parents are full-time working ones, nannies organise these play-dates themselves, usually with other nannies they met on the playgrounds. Many parents are very happy with this as we think children only benefit from it. One common practice among nannies, my colleague told me, is to take a child for the whole day, so that the child eats and naps at the date-house and they come home before parents are back from jobs. In reality, the colleague said, that some nannies drops the child at another house and leave to get some of their personal business done. Next time, the nanny will return the favour. It is fine if you do not mind, but I personally thought, I wouldn't like such a date.