GCSE Results 2012 for Lewisham & Southwark

[tiddles]

Yes as a parent of two children there I watched this with great interest. I am certainly not defending any cheating practices. I think the pressure schools are under to 'perform' can only be to blame. No doubt after all this, ALL schools are going to be on their best behaviour as westof points out.

I too was cheesed off with Tessa Jowell - Kingsdale did not want to become an academy and did so very reluctantly since there was no information available from the powers that be as to what the alternative would if they did not.

Lastly, my children are incredibly happy and motivated. I really do not want any upheaval at the school or politically motivated intervention for the sake of scoring points.

[Debster99]

I am both a parent of a yr 8 at Kingsdale & a FE teacher & watched C4 last night with a heavy heart.

Education sadly is in turmoil , schools , FE & Uni's are fighting for funding , funding is dependant on results , results are every year questioned , consequent governments change policies. To be working within this turmoil is horrific , i am daily questioning my position as an educator of the next generation.

I have no doubt that across most schools , colleges & Uni's some form of manipulation of results is happening and this will not stop until the press stop putting all of us in a negative position and the government supports the education system as is.

We all know changes need to be made , let's make them positive rather than damming every kid & yearly GSCE results currently in secondary Ed ?

Regarding the issue of teachers leaving Kingsdale in droves , this is happening across all institutions countrywide. My FE college lost nearly 40 % of our teachers this summer , most returning back to Industry where they are valued.

As for Kingsdale , i can only say i have total respect for how the school , the kids , teachers & parents have responded to this constant pressure over the last 15 months. Maybe this current exposure will eventually show what a fantastic school Kingsdale truly is ?

Just for the record my son loves Kingsdale , is achieving well in all his academic studies, participating in sports & music and is very proud to be part of a happy and safe school.

[Carbonara]

InTexas: Usually (without public whistleblowing) the entire process and the fact that it is even taking place is confidential - not just the outcome.

Whatever is going on the drawn out publicity, uncertainty and intrigue is not fair to anyone. Especially the children and families.

[intexasatthe moment]

I realise that Carbonara and ,where simple maladministration or malicious complaints have been made would agree with the confidentiality surrounding the process .

Were the alleged problems with exams to be symptomatic of a greater malaise then I would welcome whistleblowing .

Having a child whose education was badly affected when his school was used as a political football ,I am also acutely aware of how the lives of children ,teachers and parents are affected by publicity ,press coverage and political interference .

However my personal experience and my realisation that as Debster fears " across most schools , colleges & Uni's some form of manipulation of results is happening " has made me want greater openness and clarity ,not less .

Kingsdale enjoys a fantastic reputation and is in a strong position , I don't believe that the fact of an exams investigation is known to the public will damage the school .

As Debster has also said " Maybe this current exposure will eventually show what a fantastic school Kingsdale truly is ?"

[prickle]

"Prickle ... no I am not sure that there is nothing to worry about at Kingsdale. I am a concerned parent and no school is perfect. All I can say with certainty is that my sons are thriving in a positive educational environment created by a group of senior managers, including the head, Mr Morrison, who it is clear to me are motivated by the best of intentions. Is anybody suggesting otherwise?"

To answer your question, yes it's clear that there are people who are suggesting otherwise. Judging by people I know, the head at KD is a bit of a Marmite. Some people love him, others the opposite.

I think he did a good and thorough job to turn round a failing school into the success that it is today. He had to be very tough to do it. There is a link to an article in the Sunday Times in which he is interviewed about this experience.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article89064.ece

(sorry you've got to pay to see the full story!)

But you have to face the facts. Things are not going right now for Kingsdale. Having a third (43 out of 125 teachers) of your teaching force leaving your school in one year is a serious management issue. Having an ofsted section 8 inspection pending is a serious management issue. Being investigated for cheating in examinations is a serious management matter. What is he doing to deal with these issues?

Reading all the above testaments from parents about the school, it does make me wonder. You all state that your children are doing really well at KD. This is great. It should be that way. But we are adults. We know that things are not that simple. The children may be fine now but what of the future?

One final thought about the Channel 4 piece. Chloe Smith's testament was the thing that has remained with me. She could be one of your children in a few years. She came across as an ordinary but intelligent and articulate girl like many I know locally. What worry and angst that she must have gone through?

[Curmudgeon]

You are right Prickle things in the public commentary media are certainly not going right for Kingsdale at the moment.

I found the Section 8 inspection completely confirmed the parental experience stated here (happy children getting a good education in a safe environment). I would like to hear the head confirm that the concerns of the significant minority of staff were being addressed but the next OFSTED inspection will certainly inspect on this point so no management would ignore this, surely?

The exam whistleblowing is worrying but puts them under the spotlight. We should remember that all exams were issued in that year and are in the league tables and that existing and future students will benefit from the certainty that exams at Kingsdale be whiter than white - if only the same could be said for all other educational institutions. I for one am looking forward to the results of OFQUALs 18 month investigation into issues with the integrity of UK exams from the exam boards and in schools (rusty memory but think this was requested by govt in December 2011

As Debster99 says, and in my own experience it seems like teachers are leaving secondary academy education in droves

[prickle]

Curmudgeon you said "...that existing and future students will benefit from the certainty that exams at Kingsdale be whiter than white.."

How can you be so certain? Here are a few quotes from the TES article linked in by InTexas earlier in this thread. It was written in June this year.

"the school is still using the same exams officer as when the allegations were made, a claim that Kingsdale has not denied"

"A letter, seen by TES, written by Ofqual?s chief regulator Glenys Stacey to the MP of one of the whistleblowers, refers to ?legal action taken by the school against the awarding organisations?. ?This aspect has delayed the conclusion of the investigation,? Ms Stacey writes."

"When he was approached by TES, Kingsdale head Steve Morrison denied that the school had taken legal action. A statement from the school later revealed that legal proceedings have been considered, although ?not yet commenced?, to give the exam boards ?the chance to rectify the position?."

Does this sound like a school that is working hard to sort out their exam system?

edited for typos

[Bigwade12]

Parents at Kingsdale say how unfair to the children at the school the exam manipulation and resulting publicity is.

Do they consider how unfair inflated grades are to children in other schools in London and beyond , who will compete for University places with the cohort of children whose grades have been tampered with.

Parents should ask this question when they request an urgent meeting with the head teacher.

[MGolden]

Having commented on previous Kingsdale threads I had originally decided I wasn't going to bother with this one but here goes.

Prickle in answer to some of your points:

'Having a third (43 out of 125 teachers) of your teaching force leaving your school in one year is a serious management issue.' It may well be but what percentage of those teachers were on short term contracts? What percentage were covering maternity or long term sick leave? How many left because they had reached retirement age? Numbers in and of themselves are of limited value. At the open day yesterday I heard Steve Morrison state there are no vacancies in the teaching staff at school so they have successfully recruited to the vacant posts.

'Having an ofsted section 8 inspection pending is a serious management issue'. The school does not have an OFSTED Section 8 inspection pending - or maybe they do but as these are unannounced the school would not know about it - maybe you know something they don't? The school underwent an OFSTED section 8 inspection last year which is on the OFSTED website and in that it states that the school may undergo a full inspection sooner rather than later - as the school has not been inspected for nearly three years it is due an inspection anyway.

'Being investigated for cheating in examinations is a serious management matter. What is he doing to deal with these issues?' As many posters in this and countless other threads about Kingsdale have stated the very nature of what the head will be doing is and should be confidential.

'Reading all the above testaments from parents about the school, it does make me wonder. You all state that your children are doing really well at KD. This is great. It should be that way. But we are adults. We know that things are not that simple. The children may be fine now but what of the future?' Yes, I am one of those parents from Kingsdale whose child is a very happy, thriving Y9 student.

Is any school perfect? Probably not. My younger son is in Y6 and we have been doing the rounds of secondary schools. He says he wants to go to Kingsdale and both his father and I want that too but it is important that he sees what other secondary schools are like. Like his brother before him Kingsdale is his first choice. Having looked at a number of secondary schools this Sept I am inclined to agree with him.

[Debster99]

In response to Prickle ;

Curmudgeon you said "...that existing and future students will benefit from the certainty that exams at Kingsdale be whiter than white.."

If this is not the case than the blame must lie with the exam boards. Kingsdale have responded to allegations & been under the spotlight for 15 months.

Prickle "How can you be so certain? Here are a few quotes from the TES article linked in by InTexas earlier in this thread. It was written in June this year. "

TES is a provider for teachers , i am a member. Content & articles are provided by teachers. The article you refer to is by William Steward who regularly posts on TES. I am not aware of any connection he may have to confidential educational info , let alone the Kingsdale enquiry. Please correct me if i am wrong , my understanding is he contributes to TES with opinion rather than proven fact ?

Prickle"the school is still using the same exams officer as when the allegations were made, a claim that Kingsdale has not denied"

Again this must go back to the exam boards , my experience in FE is that exam moderators are sent by the board & not selected by the educational institute. If this is not the case then every exam board should be under scrutiney not the school ?

Prickle "A letter, seen by TES, written by Ofqual?s chief regulator Glenys Stacey to the MP of one of the whistleblowers, refers to ?legal action taken by the school against the awarding organisations?. ?This aspect has delayed the conclusion of the investigation,? Ms Stacey writes."

Prickle "When he was approached by TES, Kingsdale head Steve Morrison denied that the school had taken legal action. A statement from the school later revealed that legal proceedings have been considered, although ?not yet commenced?, to give the exam boards ?the chance to rectify the position?."

"A letter seen by TES / " Are we not to believe that an investigation this serious should not be confidential ?

I agree as a teacher there is something not right here but maybe Prickle should be questioning the exam boards & not the head of Kingsdale ? I am sure he has complied , he would have had no choice. No school or its SMT has that much power even in sleepy Dulwich dramaville ?

Regarding the C4 programe;

The first undislosed whistle blower states " At moderation grades went from D to B - this implies an external exam moderator was present ? Course work is highy subjective and always contentious. As a teacher i have often debated the student before giving a grade. This will be the same at any school country wide.

The 21 combined teacher/students quoted by C4 claim they have not been contacted yet the exam board claim

" Proper steps were taken by the awarding bodies to protect the anonymity of those making allegations. All allegations were investigated"

Clearly there is a problem here ? Someone is not telling the truth ?

Again i am not sure how SMT of Kingsdale can be implicated ?

Too many inconsistemcies in this whole documentary for my liking.

Prickle "Does this sound like a school that is working hard to sort out their exam system?"

I can't believe someone that is clearly intelligent & interested in our eductaion system & a local school can seriously believe that Kingsdale SMT would deliberatly be putting their institution at risk ?

Let's put some reality back into this thread.

Exam boards need to re evaluate ther position , maybe the constant rising grades are not just about better teaching , easier cirriculum but exam boards not doing the job they are paid to do ?

Amen !

[prickle]

Debster99 - TES is as far as I know is a respected publication covering educational matters staffed by proper journalists.

Anyway I am bowing out of this debate for now as clearly opinions of most of you are fixed and you are happy to trust the team that run Kingsdale. Let's hope you are right.

[prickle]

Debster99 - TES is as far as I know is a respected publication covering educational matters staffed by proper journalists.

Anyway I am bowing out of this debate for now as clearly opinions of most of you are fixed and you are happy to trust the team that run Kingsdale. Let's hope you are right.

ETA I took 'exam officer' to mean the teacher at the school who is responsible for organising the external exams, not the 'moderator' who obviously is someone external to the school.

[Townleygreen]

Exam officer is appointed by the head of a school, not by the exam board. He administrates everything to do with the exams at the school

[Curmudgeon]

I agree with townleygreen in this instance as an exams officer is employed by the school to administrate the examination process in secondary education

In this situation of course, where the only published commentary from those involved, has been that no institutional malpractice has been uncovered by the investigation is it any wonder that they remain in post? Employment law and anybody's moral compass would dictate that they should

I don't actually see what is left to discuss or what is left in a grey area ...although I am beginning to see why the head has been so reticent to comment and actually now agree with this approach

[intexasatthe moment]

Oh I don't know Curmudgeon there seems to be endless possibilty for discussion here - the number of staff leaving might be attributable to a combination of maternity leave ,short term contracts ,sick leave ,and staff reaching retirement age .Or not.

the TES article and it's mention of a letter from Ofqual's chief regulator saying that the exams investigation has been delayed by legal discussions instigated by the school might be a fiction ( that Kingsdale have chosen to allow to stand ).Or not .

Kingsdale have responded to all allegations . Or not .

the exam boards are wholly responsible for any negative views that may remain of the integrity of the system at Kingsdale . Or not .

And if that fails us we can split hairs - Kingsdale isn't expected to have a section 8 inspection soon ,it's to have an ofsted inspection triggered by a section 8 inspection .

[prickle]

Hi me again.

Just a quick question that I hope one of the Kingsdale parents can help me out with. I'm looking for the list of Governors on the Kingsdale website but have had no luck. Pls can one of you post me a link to it?

Thank you

[Debi]

As far as I know, no school has a publicly accessible list of governors and quite rightly so IMO.

[Saffron]

Can you elaborate on why you think the lists should not be public? (I'm not saying what's right/wrong, just curious about opinions on the topic.)

[rachel83]

The name of the chair of governors is usually available in the OFSTED report. My primary school has the list of all their governors on the web site. I am sure lots of other primary schools do but I don't know about secondary schools.

[prickle]

Debi, does that mean that the list of Kingsdale governors are not in the public domain and not on the website? I have looked at websites of other schools in the local area that I am interested in and their board of govenors are all on their website - Harris Girls, Haberdashers, Bacon's, Charter, Dunraven, Elm Green, Walworth, Sydenham School. Even if it is not required by law (not sure if it is or not), surely as a gesture of openess and accountability they should be published?

Could you explain why you think that its desirable not to have a publicly accessible list of governors?

[westof]

Plenty of secondary schools do have a list of governors on their website - the Ark & Harris schools all seem to for a start.

The chair of governors (I assume the current one) is named on the main Ofsted report & on Wikipedia. Schools that do list governors names don't usually publish personal contact details anyway, so I think it would be expected to contact Governors via the school, in any case.

[Saffron]

rachel83/prickle/westof - Do those published lists of governors include just the staff governors, or the parent governors too? I read somewhere that it's often common policy for the school to accept correspondence or enquiries to the governors on their behalf. So basically the school acts as an intermediary between the person making the enquiry and the governors. I thought that was a very odd arrangement, but perhaps others can shed more light onto why that is the case.

[Saffron]

Ah, westof, we crossed posts, but I see what you mean regarding correspondence where the names are published but contact details are not. That I can understand (they don't publish my personal contact at my work either!). What I'm confused by is correspondence to the governors through the school when the list isn't published. And also, would like to know why some people think the lists should remain unpublished. (Again, not saying right/wrong, just curious about the arrangement.)

[prickle]

Saffron, the info on the various websites vary but most of them just give the names and the type of governor they are eg staff, parent, local authority. They don't give their contact details so presumably you have to contact them via the school. Some give an email address by which they can contact the governors.

[Debi]

Well, now this is interesting. I've had a quick online check of the schools mentioned by Prickle and may have missed something but this is what I found when looking for a list of governors. I'm bowing out now as I don't think this is an issue specific to Kingsdale and I'm too busy to spenbd any more time on this.

Harris Girls, can't find

Haberdashers, can't find

Bacon's, chair of govs only - contact via school

Charter, full list

Dunraven, can't find

Elm Green, can't find

Walworth, can't find

Sydenham School can't find