Is lockdown in ED basically over?

[Rumbero]

ExStarmernate! ExStarmernate!

[seenbeen]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> seenbeen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > My next door neighbours upped and left on 19th

> > March fyi,and have not been back.

>

> And your point is? They left before the lockdown

> was implemented, Cummings left after. Total false

> equivalence.

>

>

> > Also, if he had

> > stayed at home and they had both got too sick

> what

> > was going to happen to the child? Do they get a

> > stranger in to look after him and subject that

> > person to the virus in their home?

>

> 'If' is doing a lot of work here. That 'if' was

> made by every parent in the country, even more so

> by single parents. The vast majority of them stuck

> to the guidance and rules as laid out by the Gov

> of which he is a major player in. So for Cummings

> it was 'do as I say, not as I do'.

>

>

> > I cannot

> > understand how the DC detractors do not

> UNDERSTAND

> > what he did....as a parent I understand and if

> my

> > kids were small I would have had to do the

> > same....my sister lives miles away- and if she

> was

> > ill I'd allow her kid to come to me or I'd have

> > picked her up....it's what families do and he

> did

> > not have contact with anyone else- unlike the

> > hordes in the park and on Alleyns field.

>

> Cummings is a very well-off, well connected man,

> has close family in London, and a large network of

> close friends, work colleagues and neighbours. The

> rule was simple, if someone in a family shows

> symptoms, self-isolate at home for 14 days. As

> I've mentioned before in a previous reply to one

> of your posts, he lives in a large house and there

> would be no problem for his wife to have

> self-isolated.

> The whole premise of going to Durham was for

> childcare reasons. He failed that several times.

> Firstly, the science clearly shows that driving in

> a car with an infected person for a long period of

> time, in this case around 5 hours, is high risk in

> terms of passing on the virus. Far greater than

> one person self-isolating in a bedroom. He

> would've known this having attended SAGE meetings

> and hearing all the scientific advice and what was

> the best way to deal with containing the spread.

> Secondly, according to his wife's diary for the

> Spectator, while Cummings lay ill in bed they

> allowed their son close contact with him, playing

> at doctor and offering him a medicinal Ribena. So

> much for childcare and minimising the risk of

> their son catching the virus.

> Then there's the latest bizarre revelation that

> Cummings drove his car knowing he had problems

> with his vision while his son was a passenger.

> What an irresponsible thing to do to put a child's

> life at risk like that. No common sense for the

> safety of the child whatsoever.

>

>

> > Would he have risked foisting the child onto

> > social services? Well, would you- I certainly

> > wouldn't- by the time they turned up he and his

> > wife would be in hospital and then been

> prosecuted

> > for leaving a 4 year old on their own at risk!

>

> For reasons stated above this is a nonsensical

> premise. Completely irrelevant and not based on

> the reality of Cummings' lifestyle.

>

>

> > Just because he showed common sense and

> remember

> > he did NOT meet anyone else...unlike the groups

> of

> > teens and young men hanging around the back

> > streets and playing footie in ED....

>

> Yet more pointless false equivalence.

> As for common sense, he clearly put his child's

> health at risk by the actions he took. The

> sensible thing to do was to self-isolate as the

> guidance and rules which he helped draw up

> stipulated. The slogan 'Stay Home' was his. It's

> this hypocrisy that people are rightly angered

> with.

>

> >

> > This demonisation of Dominic Cummings is purely

> > political- you only have to see the body

> language

> > and tone of voice of the press vultures to see

> and

> > hear where they are coming from....and I

> daresay

> > 80% of the posters on the ED...if not more.

>

> People of all political persuasions are angry at

> what he did. Conservative MPs have called for his

> resignation, and at the time of writing a minister

> has resigned.

> This is not about right versus left, rather right

> versus wrong...

Too much time on your hands obvs!

[JohnL]

Hancock is threatening us now - he doesn't realise how hard tracing and contacting people is and the people they've employed are basically students/young people and the like - getting hold of someone is a skill you learn.

You can leave messages and send letters but people don't reply - they'll wait until they feel ill. You can pay a visit but lots of people don't answer doors unless people text ahead with a reason.

The app seems to have failed already.

[diable rouge]

seenbeen Wrote:

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> Too much time on your hands obvs!

Always find time for you sweetie...

[uncleglen]

seems straight forward enough. Although most people in ED are likely to get infected by joggers or supermarket workers who don't social distance in my experience

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-track-and-trace-uk-a4452006.html

[wordsworth]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> seems straight forward enough. Although most

> people in ED are likely to get infected by joggers

> or supermarket workers who don't social distance

> in my experience

> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus

> -track-and-trace-uk-a4452006.html

bless you

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lockdown is done. The government has lost all moral authority. People will hopefully use good judgement but beyond that? I think people will do what they think reasonable (as instructed by the Cabinet) and some will get be sensible and others will get it horribly wrong. But that's what happens when you sweep the rules away to protect one person.

[seenbeen]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Lockdown is done. The government has lost all

> moral authority. People will hopefully use good

> judgement but beyond that? I think people will do

> what they think reasonable (as instructed by the

> Cabinet) and some will get be sensible and others

> will get it horribly wrong. But that's what

> happens when you sweep the rules away to protect

> one person.

Were you ever out and about in ED since 23rd March? If you were you would have noticed that many people weren't following the rules, especially in Lordship Lane, and that there was a distinct lack of elderly people in the park, on the streets as they stayed indoors to save themselves. Now the cops have given up

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-police-retreating-enforcing-lockdown-105706093.html

and good luck to the cops trying to explain anything to these people who do this in the first place!

[lpool]

seenbeen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Lockdown is done. The government has lost all

> > moral authority. People will hopefully use good

> > judgement but beyond that? I think people will

> do

> > what they think reasonable (as instructed by

> the

> > Cabinet) and some will get be sensible and

> others

> > will get it horribly wrong. But that's what

> > happens when you sweep the rules away to

> protect

> > one person.

>

> Were you ever out and about in ED since 23rd

> March? If you were you would have noticed that

> many people weren't following the rules,

> especially in Lordship Lane, and that there was a

> distinct lack of elderly people in the park, on

> the streets as they stayed indoors to save

> themselves. Now the cops have given up

> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-police-retre

> ating-enforcing-lockdown-105706093.html

>

> and good luck to the cops trying to explain

> anything to these people who do this in the first

> place!

I live at busiest part of Lordship Lane and don?t agree. Last few weeks the place has been extremely quiet and people clearly respecting lockdown. Saturdays always busier with more people food shopping. This week high street felt a bit more like normal, albeit most people were queuing outside, waiting to get into shops.

[malumbu]

Slippy slope once BoJo said all drive to the beach. Funny how we can only drive to our own beaches. Also feel that all the relaxations are retrospective, people were already congregating before today's announcement.

[DulwichFox]

It is just possible or even probable that Many of us have been exposed to The Virus

Have had the Virus and are now immune to the Virus.

It's long been said that it is 'Good' for Children to be Exposed to 'Dirt' and 'Germs'

These days children seem to live in a Sterile world and do not build up natural immunity.

Some experts have suggested that Self Isolation is in itself unhealthy and by doing so our quality

of life is diminished. Life is full of taking chances. People take extreme risks in sport and every day life.

Without risk life cannot be fulfilled or even becomes worthless.

If Lock down goes on and on and people stay at home and do not meet their friends or go out, then they will

eventually die of something else before the Virus gets them.

The question of catching the virus or being worried about passing it on to others..

Well you should not worry about passing it on as it is down to others to isolate if they are worried

about catching it.

It comes down to taking risk and getting on with life... or Not taking risk and not living life..

Foxy.

[NewWave]

Lockdown was over the moment Dominic Cummings took the P*** and didn't lose his job or resign.

Makes the rest of us look like muppets for obeying the rules.

[Alan Medic]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> It is just possible or even probable that Many of

> us have been exposed to The Virus

> Have had the Virus and are now immune to the

> Virus.

I think 6% is the figure I saw for this yesterday. That's not many.

>

> Well you should not worry about passing it on as

> it is down to others to isolate if they are

> worried

> about catching it.

>

Really? I'll send you my weekly shopping list.

[KidKruger]

"Well you should not worry about passing it on as it is down to others to isolate if they are worried

about catching it"

Ultimately, I suppose you could say we each have to make our own provision to ensure our own safety.

But to put the responsibility for staying safe entirely on those concerned about catching the virus is entirely wrong.

Perhaps you didn't mean to write that.

If a jogger brushing past me without warning and without distancing is my responsibility/problem, with jogger having no responsibility, that doesn't sound like social responsibility to me. I would hope that every person SHOULD worry about passing the virus on, no ? In fact, hasn't "control the virus" actually been the core of the Govt's advice ?!

[DulwichFox]

Stay At Home...

In the UK every year, almost 6,000 people die in home accidents and 2.7million visit their local accident and emergency departments seeking help. ...

People who spend more of their time at home suffer proportionally more accidental injuries, i.e. the very young and older people.

Foxy

[diable rouge]

Accidents happen outside of the home too, so another false equivalence. But good to see the false equivalencers have upped their game, at the start of the pandemic it was more people die from drowning than Covid.

Ignoring the fact that drowning isn't a highly infectious disease. Ignoring the fact that society tries it's best to prevent death from drowning by taking preventative measures (swimming lessons for school children, lifeguards at pools, barriers along seafronts etc).

Social distancing is one of the few preventative measures we have against this virus until a working vaccine is found, but hey, you carry on in your selfish little world...

[ianr]

Alan Medic wrote:

-----------------

> DulwichFox wrote:

> -----------------

>> It is just possible or even probable

>> that Many of us have been exposed to

>> The Virus Have had the Virus and are

>> now immune to the Virus.

>

> I think 6% is the figure I saw for

> this yesterday. That's not many.

That's probably from the ongoing joint pilot COVID-19 infection study, with a panel size (so far) of about 10,000 households. And from those, a subset of 885 adults who'd provided blood samples up to 24 May: 6.78% positive for antibodies (95% Confidence Interval 5.21-8.64%). https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/28may2020

There's also an ongoing sampling of blood donors for antibodies, about 7,000 a week afaics. The attached is extracted from the latest (28 May, Week 22) national surveillance report available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports.

[JohnL]

India has made their app compulsory with the police coming over to make sure you download it.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/india-contact-tracing-app-mandatory-arogya-setu

Meanwhile in UK a beer celebrating Cumming's exploits seems to have more distribution than our app

https://www.brewdog.com/uk/barnard-castle-eye-test

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> It is just possible or even probable that Many of

> us have been exposed to The Virus

> Have had the Virus and are now immune to the

> Virus.

>

So far as I am aware, nobody yet knows whether having had the virus makes you immune, and even if it does how long that immunity may last (even leaving possible mutations out of the picture).

[DulwichFox]

We Know Many people have caught or passed on the Virus in Hospitals and Care Homes..

We don't know how many people have done so in Banks, shops and walking down the street

or talking to our neighbours, friends and family members.

The Vast majority of the population are not infected and pose no risk to others.

The risk of catching the Virus overall is probably very small.

on the other hand:-

Approximately 38.4% of men and women will be diagnosed with Cancer at some point during their lifetimes (based on 2013?2015 data).

Leaving your home and going for a cycle ride or crossing the road you are 'Probably' ?? more likely

to get run over and seriously injured than catching The Virus.

What can We do ...?

We simply just cannot go on and on living in isolation..

This Virus is here to stay. We might have to learn to live with it.

There may well be NEW viruses that we need to deal with/ live with.

Foxy.

[KidKruger]

Some fair points there Foxy.

[Nigello]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html ? fines this weekend for non-compliants

[JohnL]

Choumert Road has a dispersal order - not related to Covid-19 but it has to be if people are gathering.

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/choumert-road-dispersal-zone-in-place-for-second-weekend-in-a-row/

[seenbeen]

NewWave Wrote:

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> Lockdown was over the moment Dominic Cummings took

> the P*** and didn't lose his job or resign.

> Makes the rest of us look like muppets for obeying

> the rules.

Erm...at least DC didn't go near anyone else....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1287249/keir-starmer-dominic-Cummings-latest-Labour-MPs-news-coronavirus

[JohnL]

This is a description of the Kinnock visit - he kept his distance.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/stephen-kinnock-targeted-by-police-for-visiting-father-neil

The thing is the arrogance wasn't there he knew he had got away with it - you'd think Neil would look after himself still (and Glenys) :).