Is Boris fit to lead?

[JohnL]

Bailing out his Bro :)

[fishbiscuits]

If Corbyn had been in charge, we'd be in exactly the same situation. The only difference is that my social media would be full of posts praising our PMs leadership, compassion, etc...

[JohnL]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If Corbyn had been in charge, we'd be in exactly

> the same situation. The only difference is that my

> social media would be full of posts praising our

> PMs leadership, compassion, etc...

There are a few on mine who consistently praise Boris. I remember a government minister (could be Cleverly) a few years ago mentioning that a load of pro government twitter accounts would be coming online the next week - which makes me suspect there's a government bot factory out there :)

[Spartacus]

I love the impartial nature of this thread

In an area (and on a forum) that largely voted for labour then of course Boris won't be seen to be doing anything right.

But he is being advised by leading scientists, top virologists, experts in their fields and heads of NHS. Some are civil servants but all would be giving exactly the same words of advice regardless of who is in power, be it Tory's , Labour, Lib Dem or the Monster Raving Loony party.

Advice is listened to, cabinet, cobra and sage meetings are held where the advisers are invited to speak and yes the government in power then acts (or not) on the advice.

Kier has the advantage of hindsight , but let's be honest would he have made the same decisions if Labour won the last GE ? My feeling is possibly as he would have been getting exactly the same advice and the leader of the Tory's would be doing the same to try and bring Labour down. Politics is political after all.

The care home issue is a difficult one, the majority are private companies charging an arm and a leg to look after people who are more often than not at the end of life. They have their own procurement people with strong links to the medical and pharmaceutical sectors so why they didn't ask their suppliers for ppe is the real question that should be asked. They are also very experienced with seasonal illnesses in care homes (norovirus, seasonal flu...) where they have isolation and protection procedures. Why weren't they implemented ?

Agreed some homes are council run but again they have the same links / contacts and procedures so why were they not better prepared as an organisation ?

It may be a very black and white view but it is a question that isn't being asked, instead the media have whipped up a frenzy pointing fingers at the government over care home deaths.

The cynical side of me also thinks that there may be a collective sigh of relief by relatives who are no longer paying up to 8 grand a month to have someone looked after because the family couldn't or wouldn't. (Just my opinion here)

So my answer to the question is and based on the fact that the advisers and advice given would be the same "yes, as fit as any other PM would be in the same situation of a global pandemic that no one saw coming"

[JohnL]

We don't know that much about the advice given or whether it was followed as it's secret

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/18/sage-advice-britain-coronavirus-science-government-policy

[Sephiroth]

I'm willing to bet any other Prime Minister (even if it was Jeremy Hunt instead of Boris Johnson) would have been at those earlier Cobra meetings and would have taken the threat more seriously

Another Prime Minister would have taken the advice of scientists etc more seriously an, critically, they would have observed what was happening in other countries and heeded the warnings and advice from there as well

Another Prime Minister wouldn't have been advised NOT to shake hands and then go on television to advise the nation he would be shaking hands

It's a horrble situation for any government to face but the notion that noone could have done better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly

[uncleglen]

No-One knows- and it was oh so predictable that a Momentum-inspired bs thread would be created on here. The arrogance of you people thinking you know better than anyone else. AND we should maybe have followed the example of germany -a country that followed a nationalistic path (what else is new!) and we were disadvantaged from day 1

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/europe/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html

[Sephiroth]

The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to being a momentum supporter? As if

What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)

[Spartacus]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> It's a horrble situation for any government to

> face but the notion that noone could have done

> better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly

Although this discussion is all based on speculation and theory as no one else is actually prime minister so it's easy to point fingers at Boris. If someone else was prime minister my feeling is that they would make just as many , but possibly not the same ones

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sephiroth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's a horrble situation for any government to

> > face but the notion that noone could have done

> > better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly

>

>

> Although this discussion is all based on

> speculation and theory as no one else is actually

> prime minister so it's easy to point fingers at

> Boris. If someone else was prime minister my

> feeling is that they would make just as many , but

> possibly not the same ones

But he was very divisive on his way to power - but then Theresa May also ended up being divisive by being indecisive. DO we have any leaders who could being consensus?.

[Blah Blah]

Being offered advice by science and choosing whether to take it, are two different things. Government is engaged in balancing public health vs economy and given that different political parties have different views on what matters most within an economy, it is only logical to argue that a different party or different leadership for that matter, may have had a different approach. Whether or not that would have led to different outcomes is unknowable.

Boris himself said in an interview that he did not take the virus seriously enough in the beginning. HE said that. He also said that getting in and almost dying is what made him realise he was wrong. That is pretty clear for everyone to comprehend. We have the highest death toll in Europe for a reason. We need to understand why.

My view is this. We have been impacted in exactly the same ways as every country that failed to respond fast enough in the beginning. We are seeing the same trajectories as everywhere else, with the same spread of age and demographic impact. There is only one differential. The speed and extent of response between countries. Lives absolutely could have been saved with an earlier response and better preparation. At the same time, lives absolutely were saved by the speed with which the NHS was geared up. But that all should have happened earlier. Lack of national stocks of PPE (something that should be in place at all times) absolutely lies at this government's door. They directed funding away from maintaining those supplies into no deal Brexit preparations. There is no getting away from that.

[diable rouge]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to

> being a momentum supporter? As if

>

> What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)

Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic culture war that any post he perceives as being negative to 'his side' must automatically be on the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since left the building.

In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting away in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a 21st Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding in the jungle still fighting the Americans...

[Sephiroth]

Deleted my message because I was mean about someone?s age

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sephiroth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to

> > being a momentum supporter? As if

> >

> > What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)

>

> Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic

> culture war that any post he perceives as being

> negative to 'his side' must automatically be on

> the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since left

> the building.

> In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting away

> in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a 21st

> Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding in

> the jungle still fighting the Americans...

It's funny you know. I took a bit of care to make sure the OP was worded as neutrally as possible. And also make clear that I was specifically talking about his health, not anything else.

But people on both 'sides' read something not in 100percent agreement with their own view...and conclude it must be from the 'other' side.....

Seph....who knew I was a closet momentum activist?:)...not even me apparently....

[NewWave]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Being offered advice by science and choosing

> whether to take it, are two different things.

> Government is engaged in balancing public health

> vs economy and given that different political

> parties have different views on what matters most

> within an economy, it is only logical to argue

> that a different party or different leadership for

> that matter, may have had a different approach.

> Whether or not that would have led to different

> outcomes is unknowable.

>

> Boris himself said in an interview that he did not

> take the virus seriously enough in the beginning.

> HE said that. He also said that getting in and

> almost dying is what made him realise he was

> wrong. That is pretty clear for everyone to

> comprehend. We have the highest death toll in

> Europe for a reason. We need to understand why.

>

> My view is this. We have been impacted in exactly

> the same ways as every country that failed to

> respond fast enough in the beginning. We are

> seeing the same trajectories as everywhere else,

> with the same spread of age and demographic

> impact. There is only one differential. The speed

> and extent of response between countries. Lives

> absolutely could have been saved with an earlier

> response and better preparation. At the same time,

> lives absolutely were saved by the speed with

> which the NHS was geared up. But that all should

> have happened earlier. Lack of national stocks of

> PPE (something that should be in place at all

> times) absolutely lies at this government's door.

> They directed funding away from maintaining those

> supplies into no deal Brexit preparations. There

> is no getting away from that.

Spot on!

[uncleglen]

How the bloody hell can you title something 'Is Boris Fit To Lead' on the East Dulwich Forum and not expect lefty anti-government comments- for heaven's sake ED is the heart of champagne socialist London or hadn't you noticed....it was deliberate- and if it wasn't ...no- it was deliberate.

Anyway as someone pointed out -Boris was out jogging (in this heat he should get a medal)....and I'm sure he is on Doctor's orders

[Sephiroth]

I?m not sure me saying ?if Jeremy Hunt won the tory leadership contest instead of Johnson, he would have handled the situation much better?, is evidence of anything leftie Glen

But you do you

[Blah Blah]

As usual, Uncle doesn't address a single point being made but goes on another predictable 'everyone is a lefty' rant.

[Sephiroth]

If only that was all he ever did

[diable rouge]

Cooeeeee!...

[malumbu]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Sephiroth Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > The Cat is many things. But anywhere close

> to

> > > being a momentum supporter? As if

> > >

> > > What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good

> way)

> >

> > Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic

> > culture war that any post he perceives as being

> > negative to 'his side' must automatically be on

> > the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since

> left

> > the building.

> > In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting

> away

> > in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a

> 21st

> > Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding

> in

> > the jungle still fighting the Americans...

>

> > It's funny you know. I took a bit of care to make

> sure the OP was worded as neutrally as possible.

> And also make clear that I was specifically

> talking about his health, not anything else.

>

> But people on both 'sides' read something not in

> 100percent agreement with their own view...and

> conclude it must be from the 'other' side.....

>

> Seph....who knew I was a closet momentum

> activist?:)...not even me apparently....

It's the term 'fit', we use 'fit' for sports people. Is he or she fit enough to play this weekend. Otherwise fit will be are they capable of the job - it the England manager fit to control the national team? Otherwise we'd say are they well enough to come back to work. Ironically all the issues you have raised with BoJo's fitness fit (another use) with many of our views that he is not capable. Come on you did tease us. As for his physical fitness it was crazy that he continued when he was so ill. Crazy. The Queen failed in her duty of care to the head of the country, and the country as a whole.

[Earl Aelfheah]

He is demonstrably untrustworthy. At a time of national emergency, you need people to have trust and confidence in the government and the advice it is giving, if they are going to effectively manage the crisis. I'm not sure what you mean by 'fit', but he's not the person I want in charge right now. Still, at least we don't have Trump I guess.

[JohnL]

Didn't Charles take over a lot of the Queens duties recently - now if he sacked Boris that would be controversial.

I think it already happened in House of Cards however :)

[edcam]

He's famously workshy. He wanted the job but none of the hassle and boy did he inherit hassle. I didn't want Corbyn as PM but it's hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job than Johnson and his cabal of incompetents.

[TheCat]

Look...now that this thread has moved on from his health (was that always my intention?:))....yes, mistakes have been made. But not every move they make is disastrous/incompetent/malicious.

I think that whoever was in Gov at this moment would cop a kicking. For Tory haters, it's evidence of their lack of compassion. If labour was in power, labour haters would be kicking them for being economically incompetent.

So really....it's just politics as usual....