East Dulwich CPZ

[Penguin68]

there are the schools and health centre nearby so the longer hours are much more suitable.

Yes, whatever we do, let's make sure none of the teaching or medical scum can park up close to serve our needs, let the b**gars walk, preferably crawl on their hands and knees to serve us. Or maybe they'll get work where they can 'commute' more easily. And not bother us with their so called expertise and 'caring'.

[roywj]

The health centre and schools were always included as an issue. I think some people have focused on Melbourne Grove but the CPZ covers a greater area than that.

CPZ creep is natural and we suffered even when surrounding areas only introduced 12-2, 11-1 etc. If you live around Lordship Lane then you can vote for two hour windows when you get the opportunity again.

There is also a big problem with people selling cars on the road, long term cars parked which never move, abandoned vehicles etc. The CPZ solves all of these issues as well.

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, well you might but it was always argued that

> commuter parking was the central issue, this could

> have been dealt with by the time limited option.

> Goodness, we had tales of commuter stalkers in

> cars harassing householders and all sorts. The

> health centre and schools were never mentioned.

> The all day CPZ has facilitated CPZ creep in a way

> that was never necessary.

[roywj]

Bit over the top. Many of the schools around here have their own parking, good train stations local as mentioned, bus links or even get the coach with the pupils they will be teaching that day, which I understand come from all over London.

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> there are the schools and health centre nearby so

> the longer hours are much more suitable.

>

> Yes, whatever we do, let's make sure none of the

> teaching or medical scum can park up close to

> serve our needs, let the b**gars walk, preferably

> crawl on their hands and knees to serve us. Or

> maybe they'll get work where they can 'commute'

> more easily. And not bother us with their so

> called expertise and 'caring'.

[Rockets]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, well you might but it was always argued that

> commuter parking was the central issue, this could

> have been dealt with by the time limited option.

> Goodness, we had tales of commuter stalkers in

> cars harassing householders and all sorts. The

> health centre and schools were never mentioned.

> The all day CPZ has facilitated CPZ creep in a way

> that was never necessary.

Why they didn't go for the 2-hour window is beyond me - but then again we know what the real motivation for this is - another example of the council not listening to the constituents.

We will soon find out how much of the problem was commuter related because if those who were lobbying for it on the basis of commuters were right we will see huge swathes of empty spaces around the station.

I really worry about the impact on Lordship Lane as the combined factors of the creep from the CPZ and now the horrendous congestion caused by the closures will have a detrimental impact.

[roywj]

Yes often around 10 years to get another vote as I understand its an expensive process doing a consultation

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> roywj Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I live in the new CPZ zone, neighbours and I

> are

> > already very happy with the effect it has had.

> > However I can understand people in other areas

> > being unhappy with the knock on effect, we

> > suffered the same here when neighbouring zones

> > were introduced.

> >

> >

> > Abe_froeman Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Can we request the removal of a parking zone

> to

> > > put things back to how they were? That would

> be

> > > far better.

>

> This is the inevitability of CPZs - they dislocate

> traffic and make you realise just how many people

> who aren't residents are parking in some areas. I

> suspect many areas that voted 'no' for a CPZ will

> soon rue the day this happened.

[roywj]

Lordship Lane is not in the CPZ area so will be unaffected. A lot of people commenting on the CPZ who do not actually live within the zone. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yes, well you might but it was always argued

> that

> > commuter parking was the central issue, this

> could

> > have been dealt with by the time limited

> option.

> > Goodness, we had tales of commuter stalkers in

> > cars harassing householders and all sorts. The

> > health centre and schools were never mentioned.

> > The all day CPZ has facilitated CPZ creep in a

> way

> > that was never necessary.

>

> Why they didn't go for the 2-hour window is beyond

> me - but then again we know what the real

> motivation for this is - another example of the

> council not listening to the constituents.

>

> We will soon find out how much of the problem was

> commuter related because if those who were

> lobbying for it on the basis of commuters were

> right we will see huge swathes of empty spaces

> around the station.

>

> I really worry about the impact on Lordship Lane

> as the combined factors of the creep from the CPZ

> and now the horrendous congestion caused by the

> closures will have a detrimental impact.

[sally buying]

Posted by roywj Today, 05:02PM

The health centre and schools were always included as an issue. I think some people have focused on Melbourne Grove but the CPZ covers a greater area than that.

CPZ creep is natural and we suffered even when surrounding areas only introduced 12-2, 11-1 etc. If you live around Lordship Lane then you can vote for two hour windows when you get the opportunity again.

There is also a big problem with people selling cars on the road, long term cars parked which never move, abandoned vehicles etc. The CPZ solves all of these issues as well.

We have parked vans in our street festooned with parking ticks and have been there for months.

Dont hold your breath.

I was against the CPZ in our street but am now a confirmed fan. Life is much better.

[Penguin68]

Many of the schools around here have their own parking, good train stations local as mentioned

And many don't. Additionally the public transport routes that serve us are optimised for those travelling from further south into town (north) - anyone living on an east:west axis and wanting to work in the Dulwich area will have a nightmare (and very long and 'round the houses' commute) on public transport - and that's if they want to risk that in Covid-19 land.

[first mate]

One moment you say you feel for people suffering parking displacement as you know what it is like, the next it is ?sour grapes?? Please don?t pretend not to be aware of the widespread effects car owners living close to a station and choosing all day CPZ, will have on the rest of us.

[roywj]

Thanks Sallybuying, I know from other areas that they usually remove vehicles after the third ticket. Maybe worth cotacting parking.

sally buying Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Posted by roywj Today, 05:02PM

>

> The health centre and schools were always included

> as an issue. I think some people have focused on

> Melbourne Grove but the CPZ covers a greater area

> than that.

>

> CPZ creep is natural and we suffered even when

> surrounding areas only introduced 12-2, 11-1 etc.

> If you live around Lordship Lane then you can vote

> for two hour windows when you get the opportunity

> again.

>

> There is also a big problem with people selling

> cars on the road, long term cars parked which

> never move, abandoned vehicles etc. The CPZ solves

> all of these issues as well.

>

> We have parked vans in our street festooned with

> parking ticks and have been there for months.

>

> Dont hold your breath.

>

> I was against the CPZ in our street but am now a

> confirmed fan. Life is much better.

[Rockets]

roywj Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lordship Lane is not in the CPZ area so will be

> unaffected. A lot of people commenting on the CPZ

> who do not actually live within the zone. Sounds

> like sour grapes to me.

>

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > first mate Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Yes, well you might but it was always argued

> > that

> > > commuter parking was the central issue, this

> > could

> > > have been dealt with by the time limited

> > option.

> > > Goodness, we had tales of commuter stalkers

> in

> > > cars harassing householders and all sorts.

> The

> > > health centre and schools were never

> mentioned.

> > > The all day CPZ has facilitated CPZ creep in

> a

> > way

> > > that was never necessary.

> >

> > Why they didn't go for the 2-hour window is

> beyond

> > me - but then again we know what the real

> > motivation for this is - another example of the

> > council not listening to the constituents.

> >

> > We will soon find out how much of the problem

> was

> > commuter related because if those who were

> > lobbying for it on the basis of commuters were

> > right we will see huge swathes of empty spaces

> > around the station.

> >

> > I really worry about the impact on Lordship

> Lane

> > as the combined factors of the creep from the

> CPZ

> > and now the horrendous congestion caused by the

> > closures will have a detrimental impact.

But it's pretty damn close and the neighbouring roads which will suffer from the displacement. I am not suffering from sour grapes - just, and always have been, worried about the impact all of these changes will have on Lordship Lane and the wider community.

A bit like the road closures - a few people will benefit whilst the majority suffer. Hardly sour grapes being concerned about the impact on others.

[monica]

We witnessed cars receiving parking tickets on Matham Grove this morning. Reading a couple of posts re the CPZ, it seems to me the residents who wanted the CPZ, are still under the illusion they will get to park their cars outside their house. This will mot be the case, and when they are tired of having to pay the parking fees for friends and family, when they visit, and still cannot park your car outside your home, then you will be asking to remove the CPZ.

To the selfish few who just had to ruin East Dulwich and insist on CPZ, I hope you are proud of yourselves.

[n dulwich northerner]

monica Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We witnessed cars receiving parking tickets on

> Matham Grove this morning. Reading a couple of

> posts re the CPZ, it seems to me the residents who

> wanted the CPZ, are still under the illusion they

> will get to park their cars outside their house.

> This will mot be the case, and when they are tired

> of having to pay the parking fees for friends and

> family, when they visit, and still cannot park

> your car outs your home, then you will be asking

> to remove the CPZ.

> To he selfish few who just had to ruin East

> Dulwich and insist on CPZ, I hope you are proud of

> yourselves.

Over in N Dulwich, parking for residents improved enormously when the 12-2 CPZ was introduced as it stopped commuters and those from neighbouring Lambeth CPZs who were leaving their cars in N Dulwich. One could again guarantee that there would be parking space outside or close to the house.

I suspect the CPZ in East Dulwich will have similar effects, but I agree that the 9-6 will make it more onerous for visitors and will also damage businesses along Lordship Lane.

[Spartacus]

So n dulwich northerner what you are saying is that due to neighbouring CPZs you needed one due to the ripple effect

I do wonder if all CPZs were removed, that with the exception of a few hot spots, parking wouldn't actually be the problem that they were introduced to combat ?

[n dulwich northerner]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So n dulwich northerner what you are saying is

> that due to neighbouring CPZs you needed one due

> to the ripple effect

Yes. My neighbours all expressed opposition when a CPZ was first proposed, and only streets very close to the NDL and Herne Hill stations were in favour. But the introduction of Lambeth CPZs made parking very awkward, and everyone supported the CPZ when it was again proposed. My estimate was that about 1/3 of parked cars disappeared.

> I do wonder if all CPZs were removed, that with

> the exception of a few hot spots, parking wouldn't

> actually be the problem that they were introduced

> to combat ?

Who knows, but it's a pipe dream! And train stations are definitely hot spots.

[Abe_froeman]

I think the council have cottoned on to the domino effect now Jim Lad, and will respond much more rapidly to another new request, hence the partial implementation in the Melbourne Grove area and the heavy, heavy emphasis they put on the replies to "would you want a CPZ if the street next to you had one" last time round.

[Spartacus]

Does anyone know if there is a model for what happens to the displaced "commuters"

Whilst I suspect they drift from free zone to free zone as New CPZs are introduced, where do they go eventually ?

It's obviously not on to the buses as passenger numbers have been falling over the years.

Do they just give up and stop commuting full stop and at what economic impact ?

Let's look at Kings College hospital as an example, CPZs now surround it so how do medical staff get there ? Have the ones who live further out but are essential to running the hospital transferred to hospitals where they can drive ?

I'm not suggesting any solution or problems but I would be fascinated to see the modelling around where people go / how they behave if they can't commute as before. Is there a study for example that looks holistically at the impact across the whole of London.

You can bet your bottom dollar that no one has done a wider model than just around each CPZ zone 🤔

"Curious and curiouser" said Spartacus

[jimlad48]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, well you might but it was always argued that

> commuter parking was the central issue, this could

> have been dealt with by the time limited option.

> Goodness, we had tales of commuter stalkers in

> cars harassing householders and all sorts. The

> health centre and schools were never mentioned.

> The all day CPZ has facilitated CPZ creep in a way

> that was never necessary.

The stalking ocurred in our area. I knew several female residents who were very upset at the way that commuters worked out when they would leave in the morning, parallel park to their cars, and then wait for them to go out - it was something that made a lot of them uncomfortable, particularly when the commuter got a bit aggressive if they were running late.

So not fantasy, but fact.

In this case it was in an area used by commuters for bus, train and hospital facilities.

[roywj]

I?m now unsure whether there has been much displacement. Had a look around top of Lordship Lane, surrounding roads and roads off of Townley Road about 9.30am this morning and there were plenty of parking spaces available. Surrounding roads at the bottom of Lordship Lane were busy but nothing unusual there, those roads were always busy pre lockdown.

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone know if there is a model for what

> happens to the displaced "commuters"

>

> Whilst I suspect they drift from free zone to free

> zone as New CPZs are introduced, where do they go

> eventually ?

>

> It's obviously not on to the buses as passenger

> numbers have been falling over the years.

> Do they just give up and stop commuting full stop

> and at what economic impact ?

>

> Let's look at Kings College hospital as an

> example, CPZs now surround it so how do medical

> staff get there ? Have the ones who live further

> out but are essential to running the hospital

> transferred to hospitals where they can drive ?

>

> I'm not suggesting any solution or problems but I

> would be fascinated to see the modelling around

> where people go / how they behave if they can't

> commute as before. Is there a study for example

> that looks holistically at the impact across the

> whole of London.

>

> You can bet your bottom dollar that no one has

> done a wider model than just around each CPZ zone

> 🤔

>

> "Curious and curiouser" said Spartacus

[Otto2]

Our street in the new CPZ would fill up with "commuters" every morning but more so on rainy or bad weather days. I think a lot of people that lived further away from the station would drive down and park to take the train rather than hopping on the bus or walking to it. During good weather, there were always less cars. So, I think these commuters are still commuters, but, finding another way to the station.

[first mate]

I was not suggesting this was fantasy simply noting that commuter parking, as in people leaving their cars on roads around the station was given as the main driver for CPZ on streets around the station. People would not be parking for long periods for a school drop off or to use the health centre. The main argument was very much about commuters going to work. Time limited CPZ would have dealt with that, as well as school drop offs for that matter.

[northernmonkey]

People used to drive from roads like Heber, Uplands Ullverscroft etc and park near the station - especially when it rained as per above. Expect those commuters would just walk (like they always should have - but were enabled by not being restricted)

[Spartacus]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People used to drive from roads like Heber,

> Uplands Ullverscroft etc and park near the station

> - especially when it rained as per above. Expect

> those commuters would just walk (like they always

> should have - but were enabled by not being

> restricted)

But is that speculation or fact concerning where they originate from ?

[Rockets]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People used to drive from roads like Heber,

> Uplands Ullverscroft etc and park near the station

> - especially when it rained as per above. Expect

> those commuters would just walk (like they always

> should have - but were enabled by not being

> restricted)

Interesting isn't it that time limited CPZs have been very effective in areas like Herne Hill in deterring commuters yet protecting the local community shops and Southwark opted for the all day option. Read into that what you will!

[jimlad48]

In the toastrack, some of the people who complained against the CPZ introduction to the Council confirmed they were driving in from Kent each day, parking up and then commuting the final part by train/bus. Where free parking exists, some people like to use cars where convenient.

In our area, since the CPZ came in, day to day parking takeup has declined by about 60-70%.