Stay Alert

[keano77]

Posted by Blah Blah Today, 05:37PM

?...Note that China has reported new cases of infection in a province in the North, not linked to people coming into the country from elsewhere...?

Latest info is North Korea and Russia account for some of this infection

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-52613138

[diable rouge]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Government wanted to change the messaging for

> one reason only, to look

> > as though we are moving towards a new phase.

>

> I think it's also to do with making the Gov look

> less responsible should there be a second wave and

> spike. Don't forget this is a Gov that is well

> versed in the blame game. They'd never release a

> mea culpa statement like the Swedish Gov did.

> Although it wasn't, the Stay Home slogan could be

> seen as an order by the Gov, and it worked because

> in a crisis populations on the whole tend to be

> compliant, certainly in initial stages. The Stay

> Alert slogan is much more ambiguous and therefore

> puts more onus on the public...

Didn't take long for the Gov to package this into a new mantra...Common Sense...the new Will of the People.

This is a good analysis (Source

)

For those that don't like clicking on links...

1/ From a political comms perspective, a "Common Sense" centric Covid strategy is masterful because it comes pre-baked with everything you could want.

First, anyone pushing back on it can immediately be dismissed as either scornful of or condescending to "regular people".

2/ Second, it positions you as the side of freedom, liberty and personal responsibility when compared to the nanny statism of one's critics.

Even voters in heavily regulated countries which approve of each individual regulation tend to oppose the CONCEPT of a nanny state.

3/ Third, it preemptively shifts blame for any negative outcomes onto a failure by a sub-group to exercise basic judgement.

The government thus goes from a leader whose decisions had negative impacts to a disappointed parent who provided autonomy and frankly expected better.

4/ Fourth, it's a shield against complexity and difficult choices.

"Who should go back to work?"

"How do employers balance profitability and safety?"

Detailed answers require difficult tradeoffs and judgement calls.

"Just use common sense," pushes those calls onto others.

5/ Fifth, it's never entirely wrong.

Whatever happens, there's always going to be a role for common sense.

Coping with Covid requires a hundred judgement calls a day by everyone in the country and the government can't possibly (and shouldn't) issue guidance for all of them.

[edcam]

We are told to be guided by common sense, thereby placing all the responsibility on the shoulders of a confused public.

You can go to the park and be within 2 metres of absolutely anyone, unless they are someone you know, in which case you can only be within 2 metres of them one at a time.

Sigh....

[TheCat]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We are told to be guided by common sense, thereby

> placing all the responsibility on the shoulders of

> a confused public.

>

> You can go to the park and be within 2 metres of

> absolutely anyone, unless they are someone you

> know, in which case you can only be within 2

> metres of them one at a time.

>

> Sigh....

Agree on the later point. Makes no sense.

Can't agree on the former.... 'all' responsibility on a 'confused' public?.....you (and many others) have managed to conclude the complicated outcome mentioned in your first point...so you're not confused....you just don't like it....

For clarity...I have no problem with arguments about not liking the rules. But this constant claim of 'confusion' is a red herring.....and driven by political bias....

[KidKruger]

With all this ?common sense? generously attributed to the British public, it?s a surprise we even needed legislation for driving regulations, weapons, drugs, or workplace rights.

Yesterday it would have been a stupid proposition, today it?s a reality:

?Public must use their common sense to combat the virus?.

One massive cop-out.

[seenbeen]

I was pleased to see the head of the Health and Safety Executive on there today as the only question mark I had about the new stuff was 'what if your employer makes you go to work in unsafe conditions?' And she explained what to do.

It has been explained to the general public day in day out and all over the internet about staying safe by social distancing and washing hands etc. which should be second nature to us now.

The new message is go to work and stay safe...and emploers should be facilitating that- like the big screens in Sainbury's

Pleading ignorance is just puerile at this stage.

[Effra]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> With all this ?common sense? generously attributed

> to the British public, it?s a surprise we even

> needed legislation for driving regulations,

> weapons, drugs, or workplace rights.

>

> Yesterday it would have been a stupid proposition,

> today it?s a reality:

> ?Public must use their common sense to combat the

> virus?.

>

> One massive cop-out.

For the last 8 weeks the media has provided almost non-stop detailed information about CV19 so any thinking adult could readily assimilate the information and make a reasonable assessment on the risks and outcomes of whatever behaviour they decide to follow.

If you want to live in a nanny state just admit it. Otherwise, make your own interpretation of all the information at your disposal.

If you cannot form your own behaviour strategy then ask Citizens Advice and don't listen to James O'Brien on LBC

[malumbu]

What an arrogant/ignorant (in terms of unknowing rather than rude) post. Human behaviour is highly complex, not only genetic (intelligence, but even that is multi-faceted) but learned from family, schooling, peer groups, the media, society as a whole, government.

We are not a subservient police state but other countries are nearer this, ie obey what they are told to do. We generally queue at bus stops, say good morning and are obsessed by the weather. If you went to other countries they would have other priorities and other values.

Please don't throw the nanny state comment at us.

As for risk assessment, I eat food past its well by date. Others don't. I cross the road not always at pedestrian crossings. Others don't. I choose to take my daily exercise, and risk independent shops when I know that I am probably going to get a less than 2 metres away from some fellow shoppers. Others have self isolated and get all their food delivered.

But as for 'informed and rational behaviour'. Many feel that is will not happen to them, get their information from untrusted sources, or simply believe in conspiracy theories, maybe propagated by peer group and other untrusted sources.

We need leadership rather than ambiguuity. The latter is in deed a cop out so if it goes horribly wrong our PM can blame the masses for their lack of common sense.

[malumbu]

Right I've gone back and read the previous posts and the other thread on the subject.

50 plus days into the lockdown I still don't think we have the information on how people are getting this. Two months ago it was often obvious - skiing in Italy, business trips to China, Cheltenham Gold Cup, cheek to jowl on the tube.

Now these have been ruled out and the understanding that the vast majority of symptomatic people are isolating so wont be coughing on me is it touching a surface when out, is it handling a delivery? Where is the main source of infection for those of us not in a hospital or care home environment. Now it may well not be known but is this being said?

[siousxiesue]

In the last 24 hours government ministers have:

1 Accidentally made it illegal to drive to Wales

2 Stated, wrongly, that Covid-19 is in the water supply

3 Made it easier to see other people's parents than your own

4 Issued guidance about business that the London Chamber of Commerce have instructed us to ignore

5 Issued guidance about lockdown that 3 of the 4 nations in the Union have instructed us to ignore

6 Released advice top experts were not given a chance to review and approve

7 Said the announcement had to be on Sunday, so it could start Monday

8 Then said they meant Wednesday

9 Then said we must go to work

10 Then said we must not travel to work

11 Then blamed the public for not understanding them

12 Then appeared on TV to explain the rules, got them wrong, and had to be corrected by Piers Morgan

13 Then appeared in Parliament to explain the rules, got them wrong, and had to be corrected by the opposition

And that?s just Monday

Credit @RussInCheshire

[Blah Blah]

Indeed they have Siousxiesue and to support Malumbu here too, what people think and believe depends on who they choose to listen to. Some people have been jailed for deliberately spitting on others abusing the fear that exists around this virus. Where was their common sense? Depending on the public to uniformly make the right choices and behave in the right way all of the time is a pipe dream. It is indeed complex.

In my opinion, it is extremely important that we have the right emphasis on and enforcement of behaviour within enclosed spaces. But here is the word of warning. Come the Autumn, when all the seasonal flu and cold viruses emerge, people are going to be coughing and sneezing everywhere. If we do not get mass testing sorted out by then, we are heading for the disaster of a second peak that may be far worse through the ease of spread from those other seasonal viruses and bacteria. The more we do now to prepare, and change the behaviour we need to change to navigate this virus, the better it will be in the longer term for everyone.

[diable rouge]

What hasn't been addressed and asked of the Gov in all this noise about 'common sense', is why didn't they wait on relaxing the restrictions until at least the the 'test, track and trace' was up and running properly? Wouldn't it have made much more 'common sense' to trial the relaxations alongside the TTT pilot scheme on the Isle of Wight? After seeing commuters piling off buses this morning I can't help but feel it's created a ticking time bomb for a second wave...https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1260465038881685505

[Trinnydad]

The ones getting off the bus, as expected, were virtually all young and fit looking. This demographic are at the very, very lowest risk of getting anything more than mild flu-like symptoms. Our two sons had it and were back at work within 3 days. Same with their mates.

As long as the young and fit commuters wear a mask and avoid touching surfaces then they are at minimal risk. This combined with a sensible policy towards interaction with older and/or more vulnerable friends/relatives will significantly contribute to lowering the overall risks and will certainly eliminate the occurrence of "a ticking time bomb". Using phrases such as "ticking time bombs" frankly, is unnecessary scare mongering.

The consequences of not getting the economy back into gear are extremely serious. The state just cannot continue spending Billions each week handing out cash. Whatever the state spends is sourced from borrowings. It has to be paid someway later.

[uncleglen]

siousxiesue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In the last 24 hours government ministers have:

> 1 Accidentally made it illegal to drive to Wales

> 2 Stated, wrongly, that Covid-19 is in the water

> supply

> 3 Made it easier to see other people's parents

> than your own

> 4 Issued guidance about business that the London

> Chamber of Commerce have instructed us to ignore

> 5 Issued guidance about lockdown that 3 of the 4

> nations in the Union have instructed us to ignore

> 6 Released advice top experts were not given a

> chance to review and approve

> 7 Said the announcement had to be on Sunday, so it

> could start Monday

> 8 Then said they meant Wednesday

> 9 Then said we must go to work

> 10 Then said we must not travel to work

> 11 Then blamed the public for not understanding

> them

> 12 Then appeared on TV to explain the rules, got

> them wrong, and had to be corrected by Piers

> Morgan

> 13 Then appeared in Parliament to explain the

> rules, got them wrong, and had to be corrected by

> the opposition

> And that?s just Monday

> Credit @RussInCheshire

Most of this is lies. You are NOT allowed to drive to Wales or Scotland because they have decided to not ease their own lockdowns.

Boris clearly stated that the measures were to start on Wednesday-

He clearly stated that travelling to work was good but try not to use public transport use a bike or walk if you can.

I cannot be bothered to address the rest because it if you had actually listened to the guidance given out since 20th March you would have a clear idea of what to do- OR read it on the government website -it is all on the government website.....what shops can open, when they may be allowed to open...honestly just like most of the media during the press briefings all this sniping at the government just indicates in which 'direction' you are motivated. If you are not part of the solution YOU are part of the problem. Still, that's ED for you !

[JohnL]

Wales and Scotland FMs weren't consulted before Boris went on TV - they were pretty peeved about it I think. Independence movements are bubbling although there is a bit of "we don't want outsiders" - similar in Cornwall - there really is no welcome for people driving to the west of the UK at present.

He didn't make it clear about Wednesday - maybe we can replay a video :)

[JohnL]

I'm not having a big go at the PM above by the way - but he seemed to bypass Wales and Scotland on Sunday and he was very confusing partly due to it being pre-recorded then I think edited (no proof of the edit but I suspected)

[diable rouge]

Trinnydad Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The ones getting off the bus, as expected, were

> all young and fit looking. This demographic are at

> the very, very lowest risk of getting anything

> more than mild flu-like symptoms. Our two sons had

> it and were back at work within 3 days. Same with

> their mates.

That's a lie, they weren't all young and fit looking.

It's not just about catching the virus and how mild or severe the symptoms may or may not be, it's also about being potential carriers of the virus and not knowing anything about it before the symptoms show. That's why there's so much emphasis on the R rate, how many people a person infects while having the virus, both before and after symptoms show, if indeed they do show symptoms as in the case of asymptomatics.

By the way, your 2 sons and his mates broke the Gov's guidance on self-isolation when you catch C19 and how to avoid transmitting the virus. Well done, hope you enjoy polishing that badge of honour.

> As long as the young and fit commuters wear a mask

> and avoid touching surfaces then they are at

> minimal risk.

Wrong again, a mask provides little or no resistance to the virus, besides, it can just as easily be transmitted into the body through the eyes...

[dbboy]

Not often I agree with anything uncleglen says, but do you know what, on this occasion the words could not have been better written, "honestly just like most of the media during the press briefings all this sniping at the government just indicates in which 'direction' you are motivated. If you are not part of the solution YOU are part of the problem. Still, that's ED for you !"

Suggest taking a read of the following;

file:///C:/Users/Admin/Desktop/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_%20(1).pdf

[JohnL]

Well heres his speech - it still confuses me

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/every-word-boris-johnsons-coronavirus-18229764

From Boris speech "I have consulted across the political spectrum, across all four nations of the UK."

From the Mail (Sturgeon) "She complained she had not been informed the slogan was being replaced with 'stay alert' before it was briefed out to the media. "

and

"And so no, this is not the time simply to end the lockdown this week. Instead we are taking the first careful steps to modify our measures. And the first step is a change of emphasis that we hope that people will act on this week.

We said that you should work from home if you can, and only go to work if you must. We now need to stress that anyone who can't work from home, for instance those in construction or manufacturing, should be actively encouraged to go to work. And we want it to be safe for you to get to work. So you should avoid public transport if at all possible - because we must and will maintain social distancing, and capacity will therefore be limited.

So work from home if you can, but you should go to work if you can't work from home. And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure. And when you do go to work, if possible do so by car or even better by walking or bicycle. But just as with workplaces, public transport operators will also be following COVID-secure standards.

(Wednesday was not mentioned up to this point)

And from this Wednesday, we want to encourage people to take more and even unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise."

I think part of the speech about going to work was edited out personally - changes were made at a late stage.

[TheCat]

Jeez, some of you are self righteous twats....

If you're worried I'm referring to you.....I probably am....