COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?

[Robbie]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Robbie, I do not believe the PCR test is accurate,

> i don*t understand how they can a;;ow different

> levels of amplifications, I have heard this

> mentioned before and also heard the genetic

> material can actually be an immune response to

> being ill. I think the lack of information and

> unwillingness to share the way these tests work

> and the implications of the different levels of

> magnification even within the healing profession

> frontline workers are expected to have faith in

> these tests, without having that connection with

> what tests are being used . I have never heard

> efexosomes and I was slightly confused with how

> they caused a problem when they neither cause nor

> spread infections. the link did not work for me

> but I found it on youtube. I do believe many thing

> effect our immune system and I also believe our

> bodies will react differently. I see there is

> exosome treatment, I can*t imagine what that would

> involve, I*ve had a very quick look only. I think

> the public should be informed about the tests.

> there should be more transparency.

This was the first I've seen about an exosome theory and thought I'd share it in case anyone with any knowledge in this area would be kind enough to comment.

What she is claiming could give grounds for libel action. Which reminds me of, and still baffles me to this day, as to why Tom Hanks never took any action against Sarah Ruth Ashcraft when she came out and accused him of buying her of her father for sex when she was 13. His twitter and Instagram accounts have been under constant abuse ever since.

[snowy]

FFS

[seenbeen]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7103344/

Work done on an exosomal vaccine after the first SARS outbreak in 2002.

Exosomes just move stuff from cells around the body all the time

As for PCR it's been around for decades ( there was a PCR dedicated lab in Guy's Hospital research floor in 1993 for example) and obviously its accuracy has been fully and regularly investigated or else it would not be admitted as evidence in crimes where DNA analysis is required.

This is a good article about the current tests

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00010-2

These articles are easily found using Google btw- I just Googled 'fast pcr tests'

[diable rouge]

These conspiracy theorists are the online equivalent of Jehovah's Witnesses, full of false ''let me just leave this with you'' bonhomie. I'm guessing snowy's ''FFS'' is the online equivalent of slamming the door in their faces...:)

[JohnL]

Libel

Look what happened with Vernon Unsworth vs Elon Musk, Libel or Slander action isn't a walk in the park.

Trump has never sued about "the russian tapes" either.

[TE44]

Seen been,thanks for the exosomone link, I will read it later, havent had time, looks very interesting.

Isn't it the DNA that is looked at when the pcr test is done for criminal diagnosis. It is not the same as looking at RNA. I realise the test have been around for a long time, especially when it was at the forefront for HIV,there is some controversay regarding diagnisis with RNA viruses, even now.

[seenbeen]

You can get a sample of RNA and use this process

https://www.britannica.com/science/reverse-transcriptase

to obtain the DNA -it's called RT-PCR

[Robbie]

This is interesting.

Dr Anthony Fauci director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

Dr Robert Redfield director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

Stephen Hahn commissioner of Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

All 3 were due to testify before the US Senate tomorrow to examine liability during the COVID-19 pandemic. All 3 are now self-isolating but are required to give evidence via videolink. Edit - Fauci will attend wearing a mask.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52604671?fbclid=IwAR1nba1wACAsL6UU8mXNnOvYG_7wRCHJ2YlyJoD8dM4xMDOUIFueEFNLaYM

https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/senate-event/327413?s=5&r=3&fbclid=IwAR1MlbfriYfQzKz_uunMCHRElADDl0BrEU2iHnJoP2tuqZRJuUuCI1xHHIQ

[TE44]

Robbie, i wonder what that will cover. Do you know if it will be made public, very interesting. Its a shame we don*t have a system set up here for people to be liable for there direction on a social distancing Neil Ferguson which was put forward to save lives but was not followed by himself. I wonder if he got fined. I can almost guarantee he won*t be waiting in a phone queue to get through to Universal Credit.

[Robbie]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Robbie, i wonder what that will cover. Do you know

> if it will be made public, very interesting. Its a

> shame we don*t have a system set up here for

> people to be liable for there direction on a

> social distancing Neil Ferguson which was put

> forward to save lives but was not followed by

> himself. I wonder if he got fined. I can almost

> guarantee he won*t be waiting in a phone queue to

> get through to Universal Credit.

I'm not sure TE44 but I expect them to get a grilling about the advice they gave the Government.

A few hours ago the UK Government have also condemmed the advice they receiced.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-government-guidance-tests-sage-jeremy-hunt-a9509111.html

[JohnL]

And again I agree what Jeremy Hunt is saying - note he is saying advice from SAGE should have been published - I think he may even maybe hinting SAGE was manipulated by secrecy. Remember , we only went into lockdown because Macron threatened to block UK ports some say.

Jeremy Hunt is not Government at present - he's Chair of a HoC committee I think. Edit: Actually as he was Health Secretary when this system was set-up he is criticising himself :)

[ianr]

Robbie wrote at 00:10 today:

> A few hours ago the UK Government have

> also condemmed the advice they receiced.

>

> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-government-guidance-tests-sage-jeremyhunt-a9509111.html

That is a report of Jeremy Hunt's contribution (at 18:01) to yesterday's first part of a Commons debate on Covid-19. A constituency MP is not "the UK Government". If you read the whole of his contribution, which was available yesterday evening at https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-05-11/debates/9DD7E97E-5478-40D5-94F9-758D21D302DF/Covid-19 (HTML) and https://hansard.parliament.uk/debates/GetDebateAsText/9DD7E97E-5478-40D5-94F9-758D21D302DF (plain text, 186kB), and which I attach, it seems fairly clear that his principal criticism is of the secrecy of SAGE proceedings and reports. For that the government holds responsibility. His speech concluded:

Had SAGE?s advice been published in January, an army of scientists from our universities could have challenged why test, track and trace was not being modelled. They could have demanded a ramp-up of testing and challenged the behavioural assumptions that delayed lockdown. We cannot know for certain, but the result may well have been better subsequent advice and many lives saved.

British science is world-beating because we have always championed inventiveness and encouraged challenge, so let us sweep aside the secrecy that surrounds SAGE and publish what it recommends, including dissenting views. In that way, we will harness the robust exchange of ideas, which has always been one of our greatest national strengths, and, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, come out of this crisis wiser and stronger.

The debate continues this afternoon.

[Ed: attached filename date corrected]

[seenbeen]

No-One stood a chance

https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html

and the WHO have now U turned on their 'wet market' stance

[JohnL]

There's obviously some issues about US-China (or Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump news conference and the reaction of one of the press corps to Trump before he walked away can see that.

She seemed really upset.

[Blah Blah]

Saying that wet markets are a source of livelihood (a point I also made) is not the same as saying they should not be banned. The link you cite Seenbeen is the opinion of one WHO expert, and an opinion in which he states that these markets are at a high risk of causing viral outbreaks. It is not an official WHO statement on policy however. That is an assumption being made by the news channel reporting on it, which is probably why it is being reported nowhere else.

[seenbeen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saying that wet markets are a source of livelihood

> (a point I also made) is not the same as saying

> they should not be banned. The link you cite

> Seenbeen is the opinion of one WHO expert, and an

> opinion in which he states that these markets are

> at a high risk of causing viral outbreaks. It is

> not an official WHO statement on policy however.

> That is an assumption being made by the news

> channel reporting on it, which is probably why it

> is being reported nowhere else.

The WHO is sitting on the fence as it did in 2002- for financial reasons- this is unacceptable and I hope the nations around the world make their own arrangements.

[Robbie]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's obviously some issues about US-China (or

> Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump news

> conference and the reaction of one of the press

> corps to Trump before he walked away can see

> that.

>

> She seemed really upset.

It was shocking how she tried to play the race card. That was CBS reporter Weijia Jiang - part of the fake news brigade.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Trump is clearly corrupt, temperamental and incompetent. Anyone who watches his incoherent rants and childish tweets and still thinks ?that?s my guy?, is beyond help.

[Mark]

I agree with robbie (shock!) that she tried to play the race card to quickly, she was chomping at the bit to get one over on him. I disagree that CBS are part of the fake news brigade.

[KidKruger]

Robbie - you think the reporter was selected on ethnicity by the news outlet she works for to represent at Trump's daily conference ?

And her being there was used to try and inflate the 'USA v China' question ?

I don't think so at all.

Trump is a numpty, can't control his mouth and says rude things to a lot of people, guess who the benefit of the doubt goes to when dealing with people like that ?

That's right, not him !

Robbie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > There's obviously some issues about US-China

> (or

> > Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump

> news

> > conference and the reaction of one of the press

> > corps to Trump before he walked away can see

> > that.

> >

> > She seemed really upset.

>

> It was shocking how she tried to play the race

> card. That was CBS reporter Weijia Jiang - part of

> the fake news brigade.

[malumbu]

This thread seems to have deteriorated into desperate trying to find controversial news. Are we all that bored? I suggest new culinary skills. Fortunately there is a separate thread on this.

[Mark]

malumbu, robbie's just trolling/jesting and it started in a deteriorated state so can't go much lower. I suggest you roll with it, perhaps throw in a few myths questioned in a factual way, or just point to a misrepresented report and say "well x said y so y" and watch people argue and discuss in your wake. This format works for both trolls and the POTUS.

[JohnL]

Keir Starmer pointed out just now in PMQs (as he would as LotO) that the country comparison chart has been ditched.

Boris replied the Government is still analyzing other countries - bit didn't reply specifically.

Oh yes and the whining about Grimes spoiled PMQs (by some MP - didn't see who and took it back to the low level pre lockdown

[KidKruger]

"This format works for both trolls and the POTUS."

hahahahahaaaaaaah !!

[malumbu]

Actually it was ambush marketing for my bhajis. I can't afford a biplane to fly overhead and the cost of the Goodyear blimp (does that still exist) is frightening.

There is of course a link to Trump as with so many Indian professionals (IT, commerce, health) emigrating to the US the standard of Indian food there has improved greatly as well as the cricket. That is not a facetious comment, my mate over there greatly appreciates both. Not sure if Trump does.