Relaxing the lockdown

[Sue]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Ending Current Restrictions = Spike In Deaths

>

> We?ve not even had a lockdown yet in UK.

> Just cos some of us are still alive doesn?t mean

> we can?t catch it, just that we haven?t yet.

Yep

[seenbeen]

Disinfectant- 'an agent that frees from infection'...he may have read the article about decoy proteins...

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1270123/coronavirus-science-decoy-proteins-cells-infections-Leicester-university-covid-19

[Blah Blah]

He doesn't read anything. It is claimed he has never read a book ever. Totally far fetched to even argue that reading that Express article would lead someone to conclude disinfectant can be used to fight the virus internally.

[KidKruger]

I think that briefing, where Trump suggested the research into ridiculous measures to combat the virus, is typical of his appearances.

His mind wanders all over the place, not thinking logically, unfiltered, and unrestrained, his mouth is engaged directly real-time to his brain with no time delay or reasoning filter.

He blurts out this diatribe and because he's POTUS people pay attention and write down/publish his ramblings.

Then when it doesn't seem to make sense everyone acts shocked and surprised.

But it's the same every time, he's just there to make noise and distract from reality (because in reality you've got him, hook line and sinker).

Throughout his campaign speeches and many public appearances since, Kafka-esque would be an understatement.

Look at who / what you have in front of you !

Who cares what he says, he's an imbecile.

[seenbeen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> He doesn't read anything. It is claimed he has

> never read a book ever. Totally far fetched to

> even argue that reading that Express article would

> lead someone to conclude disinfectant can be used

> to fight the virus internally.

It was research conducted in Sweden I think- I read it myself a couple of weeks ago...it is about 'decoy' proteins and would not have been published unless it had been peer reviewed.

Anyway so what if he has never read a book- who claims it...no prizes btw. Lots of people do not read books- they do not see the point as it does very little to enhance your actual life unless your life consists of mixing with other people that read books and talk about them.

[Blah Blah]

Why are you posting an article that regards the real science behind the protein path of viral antigens as some kind of ad hoc defence of President incapable of understanding even basic science? Acknowledge what the rest of the world can see for themselves at least!

As for reading books, it is a good job some people do, or you would have no doctor to treat you when you get sick, no engineer to develop new technology, no geneticist to develop stem cell treatments, no chemists to develop vaccines, no movies to watch and so on. Books are about knowledge (and creativity and ideas). Ignorance comes from a lack of knowledge. You can figure out the rest for yourself I hope.

[seenbeen]

The work on the decoy proteins

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/university-leicester-scientists-developing-injection-4051193

You can have all the knowledge you like- doesn't mean you have any common sense or intelligence.

Most scientists work from scientific papers anyway- textbooks are way behind the current thinking and research.

[malumbu]

Seebeen, you sound like my late father. "you may know what x + Y equals, but you have no common sense"

Although I do take your point - my chemistry degree was based on pre-second world war text books. Thank God for the information revolution which means that undergraduates and researchers can access state of the art info. Hey, even when I was in the lab doing research you could get state of the art information, it just took weeks rather than seconds using libraries and their search facilities, reading scientific journals, communicating with other research groups and getting their information and papers in the post. Information technology has been around a long long time.

Anyway I blame Brexit and soft nationalism for tosh like yours. Degrading experts and encouraging the masses not to further their education. I keenly await your response!

Tut tut Blah Blah, as a chemist I would not be developing vaccines. I did try to make some novel organic compounds once but cellular or molecular biology was a bit beyond me, but did have an interest in microbiology during my career, funding some work producing monoclonal antibodies. Interesting stuff, and of course chemists can be part of the teams developing vaccines.

[JohnL]

We had to book papers out of the library on the Strand :) At Masters and below you're going to use textbooks.

I have some good old Cisco Textbooks, hardcover and heavy, good on the bookshelf but unlikely to read again.

[Blah Blah]

I used the word chemist because I hoped it would be an easier concept to grasp (given that it is a core subject at school level) ;)

Completely agree with this;

'Anyway I blame Brexit and soft nationalism for tosh like yours. Degrading experts and encouraging the masses not to further their education. I keenly await your response!'

With pandemics though, you can not hide from the science and dependence on experts. This is why populist leaders and their hardcore fans are floundering. The public have been reminded of the importance of experts and data. Populism however depends on wilfull ignorance and propaganda.

Textbooks are still very much a part of education at all levels. Why? Because they provide the grounding from which to understand the language of research papers. Textbooks are also updated regularly.

[PnB]

I have got quite used to the lockdown as working from home in my admittedly grand property is quite nice, as is drinking beers in the garden in the evening out in the sunshine. I have no real desire to go back to the office, but i fear i may have little choice in the matter when im on a 6 figure salary, with people to manage and more money to be made for my company.

Certain elements of the lockdown have been rather simple to circumvent anyway, but i would be alarmed if there were more folk in the queue for M&S or the independent shops of Lordship Lane. All in all, its a tough one to call. Could perhaps people just not use more common sense? I.E if you are over around 60 and/or have underlying health conditions, it may be best to stay inside for a couple more months? It seems a little harsh on the young to be cooped up lest they accidentally breath near and transmit the virus to someone who knows only full well they are very vulnerable to suffering the worst effects.

[Sue]

You are enjoying yourself on here, aren't you, PnB?

:))

[Jules-and-Boo]

As a business owner pnb, I would expect you to have a better grasp of basic economics than suggest this is extended for a couple more months.

Therefore, I deduce you are just wishful thinking.

[diable rouge]

The lockdown is having an effect on the quality of the parody accounts...Poundshop Bob Buzzard

[JohnL]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> As a business owner pnb, I would expect you to

> have a better grasp of basic economics than

> suggest this is extended for a couple more

> months.

>

> Therefore, I deduce you are just wishful thinking.

It's tongue in cheek I think PnB being one of the super wealthy may be Potential new Boyfriend :)

[Spartacus]

Love this

Nothing more to add IMHO

[DulwichFox]

It has been 'Suggested' that Young people will be the first to be allowed more freedom

whilst elderly folk will need to remain in lock-down for longer.

That seems absolutely Crazy to me..

Young people are more likely to congregate in large numbers.. Partying and the like.

.. whilst Elderly folk are more likely to be on their own in any 'Social' activity.

Foxy

[KidKruger]

Exactly Foxy, so the young people can go out nd spread/contract the disease and pass it on to the more vulnerable.

Everyone surely knows how this goes, it's like there's a cull planned...

[pk]

so people think that the vulnerable should go out and then less vulnerable (and more able to work) should stay at home?

weird

[TE44]

Getting confused with all the threads. Spatacus which hospitals couldn't give ICU care. I really would be interested to know. I know nurses who were asked if they would be available and as yet have not been asked to work. Although they say tge reason for the Nightingale, eExcel, was lack of staff. In fact many hospitals have had less patient than they have seen for a long time, how long this will continue considering the people who had operations, appointments cancelled then a government spokesman, doctors made a statement, sent texts to ask people to please go for treatment they need. My friend had an MRI appointment canclled, outside her town(north England) then got a phone call asking her to come to ghe main hospital. The nurse said she had never seen the hospital so quiet. I am in no way taking away what hospital staff are doing nor am i saying that all hospitals have less patients. People who would have normally went to hospital, didnt get the treatment they needed will see figures rise.

[Blah Blah]

That's not quite the true picture TE44. Life saving treatment is not being denied for any condition. What has changed though is that because people are not engaging in sports or getting drunk and fighting etc, that A&E is much quieter. Also, people are not filling A&E with minor conditions because they can not get to, or do not have a GP. Where there is a problem is in those who should call an ambulance or should go to hospital, not doing so out of fear or because they are downplaying the seriousness of their medical need vs the risk of catching the virus. Hence the public statement about that, encouraging people to still seek medical help for other serious or potentially serious conditions. The operations and treatments that have been cancelled are those considered to not be life threatening if they are delayed.

Spartacus is right. All lock down measures were designed to stop health resources being overwhelmed - to manage a manageable peak. Easing those measures will continue to be a balance of hospital capacity. And that is probably a sensible balance to seek given that this is a global pandemic and the ability to eradicate the virus completely may never come. But with that comes a collective responsibility, to do our part to protect the vulnerable.

Something I have warned about repeatedly is mutations. There is evidence already of this virus mutating, Most of the mutations are slight and seem to render the virus less deadly. But there is one coming out of Mexico that is more deadly. And that is what has to be monitored in subsequent waves.

[Effra]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> That's not quite the true picture TE44. Life

> saving treatment is not being denied for any

> condition. What has changed though is that because

> people are not engaging in sports or getting drunk

> and fighting etc, that A&E is much quieter. Also,

> people are not filling A&E with minor conditions

> because they can not get to, or do not have a GP.

> Where there is a problem is in those who should

> call an ambulance or should go to hospital, not

> doing so out of fear or because they are

> downplaying the seriousness of their medical need

> vs the risk of catching the virus. Hence the

> public statement about that, encouraging people to

> still seek medical help for other serious or

> potentially serious conditions. The operations and

> treatments that have been cancelled are those

> considered to not be life threatening if they are

> delayed.

>

@BB.

You have got it exactly right.

[TE44]

Blah Blah, I was replying to Spartucus post which took up my full screen on phone. Saying "cuurently have space in ICU" gives the impression that may have been the case but its not now. It has not been the case as far as I know. The feeling of contradiction and information given, not making sense. I am now calling it a dose of antisense. No questions asked. Is the strain different coming from Mexico, can you explain please.

I get what you are saying about E & A isnt that why there is minor injuries in many.

Althought theres has been more do.mestic voilence, we do not know the figures yet of the people with serious illness who have died because they put off going to hospiital out of fear. Information given with fear should be clear, that has not been the case, causing an antisense reality. If we had to live our lives with worry about viruses mutating, we would never go out.There have been mmany studies on quarantine, solitary conefinement etc, we are yet to see the figures relating with this lockdown. Suicide figures can take up to a year or more to be added to ONS figures. Although I think Lious Appleby or someone from ,Prevention of Suicide office says they would be working with real time figures in lockdown. Maybe they will wait until after lockdown before realising them.

[JohnL]

The mutation causing worry seems to be D614G at the moment as far as I can tell. It has changes to the virus spikes on it's surface.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/07/mutations-in-the-coronavirus-spike-protein

[TE44]

Thanks Johnl ive not read it yet, as have to be in mood to read this kind of literature, had a glimpse through and couldn't see any relation to Mexico. Read a few of the comments, def easier to take in at the moment for me, noticed a few were saying it doesn't make sense, again. It seems to be a reoccurring feeling for these times.