Is Denmark Hill to St. Pancras train service being stopped ?

[KidKruger]

I've recently started using the weekday train service between Denmark Hill and St. Pancras and very fine it is too.

Yesterday someone told me its being axed (will only run South as far as Blackfriars), but I told them I thought it was the service between London Bridge and Victoria (via Denmark Hill) which may be stopped.

Of course, these trains actually run from like Sevenoaks/Kent House to Luton/Bedford - my journey is a tiny bit of the entirety, so I'd expect many people to be affected (my trains always seem busy esp. rush hour).

Anyone know if the DH -> St. Pancras service IS being stopped ?

Cheers,

KK

[Jackwil80]

Its not confirm as yet but yes i have heard its an issue under consideration

[MarkE]

Pretty certain that it isn't ending. See the planned network map at http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/view/30.

However, in terms of timetables, don't think they've been published for FCC beyond the December switch yet, so if you're after a cast-iron confirmation between DMK and STP, think others might be better placed to answer.

Series of badly put-together edits:

It's possible that this story could have been misinterpreted http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/bromley/9878307.Consultation_over_slashing_of_Sevenoaks_to_Bedford_train_service/?ref=nt ?

DFT's consultation document for future franchise is http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2012-23/consultation-thameslink.pdf , but that doesn't take effect for another year yet. From that document, this snippet:

During the Christmas and New Year period 2014 to 2015, Network Rail will disconnect the Spa Road Junction (Bermondsey) and Metropolitan Junction (between London Bridge and Blackfriars). This means that no Thameslink core trains will be able to serve London Bridge for a period of three years, and that all services between Blackfriars and East Croydon and the Brighton Main Line will be diverted to run on the slower routes through south London (routes that are used by several peak-time Thameslink core trains today) adding some eight or nine minutes to journey times.

Crucially, it doesn't really mention the Sevenoaks service via Elephant & Castle... This later section does, though:

Transfer of services from Southeastern in 2018

7.17 We have yet to confirm the exact scope of services that we will transfer from Southeastern in 2018 and we are seeking respondents? views as part of this consultation. Current thinking is that in addition to Thameslink core services serving Sevenoaks, these will be expanded to include Maidstone East. It is also possible that in peak hours this may include some services from Dartford and Orpington. The rail industry has recently been engaged in an exercise planning the timetable that could operate when the Thameslink Programme is completed. This work involves all the affected operators and Network Rail. One particular conclusion has emerged from this work: if services between Kent and the Thameslink core route run via London Bridge it becomes physically impossible, within the envisaged infrastructure available at that time, for the present level of service to continue to run into and out of London Cannon Street. In view of the high demand for Cannon Street services, we believe it may be best for services between Kent and the Thameslink core to run only via Elephant & Castle. We are seeking respondents? views on this and the destinations in Kent that it would be appropriate for Thameslink core services to operate to and from. When considering these views and deciding whether or not to include this in the specification we will consider the affordability of proposals as well as balancing the needs of all users on the route.

[Earl Aelfheah]

This is why I would love the tube to be extended into SE London. Relying on transport services with are not only irregular, but have routes and timetables which are constantly under review is a nightmare. This part of London is the worst catered for in terms of public transport and yet the mayors priority has been crossrail (serving already well catered for communities) and has now switched to crossrail 2 (again serving already well connected areas). When will a politician look at the transport map of London and ask what's happening to address the glaring great hole in the bottom right corner?

[Asha22]

Panicking... the LB to Victoria line potentially being axed! Do we know how likely this is? This wouldn't make any sense at all... from 6:30-9:30pm all the trains are packed when I get on at Denmark Hill (and even more so afterwrads)...

Thanks

[Earl Aelfheah]

LB to Victoria is going this December (8th I think).

[Siduhe]

KidKruger Wrote:

> Anyone know if the DH -> St. Pancras service IS

> being stopped ?

>

> Cheers,

> KK

As I understand it, the proposal is to cut the Wimbledon loop and terminate it at Blackfriars rather than continuing through to St. Pancras.

See http://www.brixtonblog.com/commuters-protest-against-thameslink-cuts/6414 for example. Deadline for comments is today.

[Jeremy]

rahrahrah, while I agree that transport in SE London is bad, I would argue that crossrail, connecting the airport with major centres such as the west end/city/canary wharf is also a very important project.

I really doubt the tube will be extended into SE London in my lifetime.

[Undisputedtruth]

@KK

See this thread http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,921668 and all will be clear. Consultation is due to end today so be quick to get your comments in to save

@cdaywilson

The London Bridge to Victoria services, known as the South London line (SLL), will be axed on 8 December 2012. I fully agree with your comments though there are some people on this forum posting that it's not very busy when they themselves don't use it.

The methodology to axe the SLL was fundamentally flawed as they did not account for the fact that this service served two rail terminals and is one of the most efficient service in South London.

[MarkE]

cdaywilson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Panicking... the LB to Victoria line potentially

> being axed! Do we know how likely this is?

Kind of covered in this thread - http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,933821 Most of the stations will be covered by the East London Line extension, with the exception of the bit between 'Brixton' and Victoria.

[KidKruger]

cheers UDT.

Does anyone know where / how I get my comments in, and to whom (in respect of the journey I'm interested in from Kent to bedford/Luton) ??

[Undisputedtruth]

Here's the link to the document http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2012-23/consultation-thameslink.pdf

Page 38 tells you where to send your comments, which is Department for Transport. Deadline is 5pm today. There are 30 questions to the consultation.

I suggest you emphasise the need for train reliability and seats. Your line is in direct competition with the Wimbledon loop trains. However, the problem with Wimbledon loop trains is that they can't run 12 carriage trains and could affect other trains' reliability along the Thameslink route between Blackfriars and St Pancras. Network Rail isn't keen on the Wimbledon loop for this very reason.

[KidKruger]

Cheers UDT, doing it now.

[Renata Hamvas]

I contacted the relevant local press (Southwark News and a publication group that publishes several local papers including Newshopper for the Catford to Sevenoaks part of the route) last week, but they didn't An article did however come out in the Southwark News about the Wimbledon Loop line, and I was perplexed to see that the threat to the Sevenoaks service wasn't mentioned at all.

I have made some further enquiries about this issue, and have been told that the Thameslink project is a major strategic undertaking which should ultimately improve rail services across the whole of London. However, some service patterns will need to change and some trains which currently enjoy a through service will be terminated at Blackfriars, in order, Network Rail say, to ensure maximum capacity for other through services. The trains from Herne Hill approach Blackfriars from a direction which would need to cross other train paths in order to reach the 'through' tracks. Network Rail say that they need to avoid crossing train paths as this would affect reliability on the rest of the Thameslink network. I have discovered that Network Rail Route Utilisation Strategies over the past few years have assumed that the services to be terminated at Blackfriars would be those trains approaching from the Wimbledon loop/Herne Hill. In terms of the Sevenoaks to Bedford/St Albans services which currently run via Nunhead and Peckham Rye, these trains run on a different set of tracks to the Herne Hill trains, and do not have the same issues on the approach to Blackfriars. As a result, for technical reasons, it is highly unlikely that these trains will be selected to terminate at Blackfriars.

However, we can't necessarily predict the outcome of the consultation and everyone who is concerned about the train service should email the Department for Transport, as they will be making the final decisions about services on the new Thameslink franchise - [email protected] The deadline is 5pm today- so time is of the essence! The Southwark Council consultation response makes clear that the Council vehemently opposes any truncating to the Sevenoaks line.

Renata

[KidKruger]

I've sent my comments now.

I do hope that the service I use is maintained, it's a great weekend option too (especially since ED to LB at weekends i like a lottery !).

[Eileen]

This follows up and adds to Renata?s post giving info about the Government?s consultation. SRUG (Southwark Rail Users? Group) submitted its comments in the Thameslink franchise consultation last Thursday. I am aiming to post the info on this to various forums and to report that the Government has now extended the deadline for comments until 14th September.

Email your comments to [email protected], but read below first. We have another 19 days to get many emails in to them about how important it is that we keep (and improve) our services from Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill to St Pancras.

We want to improve them by making them 7 days a week and to have them at Tube-like times in the morning and evening. At the moment they stop at 9pm and don?t run at weekends. And we also want to increase them to 4 trains per hour. It may seem fanciful but we have had rail experts telling us that more trains can go on through Blackfriars than Network Rail are saying. We have asked in our comments if it is that we, in south London who rely on these services as the substitute for the lack of the Tube, are just being ignored once more in favour of long distance trains that in some cases have other routes to get their passengers across the river. A summary of the background and context for all this and how to make comments is on the SRUG webpages here: http://www.bellenden.net/Thameslink

The link to the SRUG submission is also there, and here is a shortcut to it: http://www.bellenden.net/sites/default/files/SRUG%20response%20to%20DfT%20Thameslink-Southern%20Franchise%20consultation%202012.pdf

On the proposals to terminate some St Pancras trains at Blackfriars - look especially at the SRUG response to the Government?s Qs 18 & 19, but it is worth reading the responses to other Qs as well to get the fuller story about our services to Blackfriars and St Pancras. our responses to other questions cover also the issues about our services to Victoria (cut in more than half on 9th December 2012) and London Bridge, and the state of some of our stations including East Dulwich. (The consultation covers also all our services to London Bridge and has interconnections with SouthEastern services that run into Victoria.)

It seems essential now that many local users of this service, from the three stations Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill to St Pancras via Blackfriars, email the Department for Transport at [email protected] to say how important that service is to them, and why. Otherwise the Government may wrongly think that it isn?t important to this part of south London.

Please pass this message on to anyone else you know who uses that service. If you have any queries please post them here and I will try to respond.

We have nearly 600 local rail users on the SRUG mailing list, but clearly from the questions being posed in this topic many taking part in this discussion are not on our list and so missing out on our updates. So do please join our SRUG mailing list by emailing [email protected] and saying you are responding to this post.

[Eileen]

We will be at the Peckham Rye Fete on Saturday 12pm - 5pm with all our info on the rail services issues in the current consultations, and also Peckham town centre. Do come and visit to talk about these things. See us at the Peckham Residents Network stall.

It is a great community day out organised by the Friends of Peckham Rye.

follow us -

like us - http://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision

visit us - http://www.peckhamvision.org

mailing list - http://peckhamresidents.wordpress.com

[the-e-dealer]

Who are we?

[Eileen]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Who are we?

local residents working together on these matters, information here:

http://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision

http://www.peckhamvision.org

http://peckhamresidents.wordpress.com

come and meet some of us.

[mynamehere]

Could someone explain why our elected leadership does not stand and speak on our behalf? Where does Tessa Jowell stand on this? Where does Southwark Council as a whole stand on transit connections serving this part of Southwark This is a fundamental part of Southwark infrastructure and should be addressed in a unified way. Why wasn't the tube extended to East Dulwich? This is not a matter for one councillor and a bunch of volunteers and some signatures or conversation at the next meeting. This problem is of long standing. Mrs Jowell has been an MP for the area for 20 years? What could be more critical to the health and welfare of the area served than transit links?

[the-e-dealer]

Hmm Hospitals? Employment, Food?

[Medley]

yeah even I would put other stuff ahead of transport.

But individual MPs rarely make a difference on these things (although I can think of exceptions). And forget it if you're looking to S Council for anything on transport. The contrast with neighbouring boroughs like Lewisham and Lambeth is stark.

[mynamehere]

Hospitals: transit links impact access/ parking/ less congestion/ staffing

Employment: trasnsit links impact jobs and money in endless permutations

Food: the above again

When nations modernize and build and develop the first thing they need is transit

[Medley]

Actually the first thing they need is something to transit. Then they need roads. Then, eventually, they need more sophisticated forms of public transport than rickshaws/tuk tuks/buses. That's a long way down the road, pun intended.

And even then it's striking that transport is merely an enabler, not a creator, of success. East Croydon has amazing public transport. Doesn't stop it being pretty grim, but does help it function.

[njc97]

Where are our elected representatives? About half a dozen posts up?

Why wasn't the tube extended to east dulwich? That's a very long question but it's not like they stopped just short to spite you.