Heresy?

[TheCat]

I know the weekly Thursday clap is sacrosanct in these Covid times - but does anyone else think it's all a bit cringe and tokenistic.

This doesn't mean I don't appreciate the efforts of 'our NHS'; and I appreciate that some medics have said it gives them a boost. So in that sense, great that people can help in some small way.

Also it's nice that it's brings people together in the same street (well as close as 2metres anyway).

But despite these very valid reasons to support it, I still find it all a bit naf.....sorry.....

[first mate]

Don?t feel bad it?s not for everyone but if it helps even a few key workers through it is worth it. Just grin and bear it.

[malumbu]

Ditto, just do it. I was a bit weary of it, but in such times normal rules don't apply and it does give out a positive message. I used to avoid churches being an atheist avoiding weddings and the like. But that was silly. I wont be singing the national anthem though (had a thread about this yonks ago).

However right to discuss and I'm not intending to be patronising.

[Blah Blah]

Unbeknownst to you Cat, there may be a front line worker living on your street, in your neighbourhood. It can not be underestimated how appreciated those workers feel hearing the nation come out every week to clap for them. It is a gesture of solidarity, lets them now they are not forgotten while mostly everyone else stays safe at home. Try to see it for the way it is meant to be seen maybe? :)

[malumbu]

It's a fair question. It's brilliant the appreciation that we are giving front line/key workers, including all the home made stuff - rainbows and the like. We have to continue such appreciation in the future. That dig is mainly at our lords and masters. There is a bigger question on the world we want to see post Covid-19, what we will learn and how we may do things differently and better.

[TheCat]

Yeah....you are all right. As I said in my OP.....very good reasons....but still....mea culpa....

[JohnL]

I sort of clap rather soundlessly - my neighbors bang pots and pans

Each to his own.

[Gaynor Hill]

Yes I clap but what saddened me was a article in The Times yesterday saying how we are all loving the NHS at the moment but will it go back to people abusing the staff that security has to get involved and why do so many people sue

Let's hope it stays the same with everyone being appreciate of it and those who work there to take care of us

[seenbeen]

most of my neighbours clap out of the window!

[tomskip]

No one cares what you think. Stay in and don't clap if you find it "cringe".

[TheCat]

You're right no one cares what I think. Just the people who have clicked on this thread and read what I think...like you....

[malumbu]

I care. If you don't care why post? I'd like a bit more discussion and debate on this forum rather people throwing rocks at each other (I am sure I have been guilty).

[seenbeen]

If people care about the NHS but cram onto Westminster Bridge to clap- that's Hypocrisy....

[TheCat]

I never said I don't care. Of course I care about my own thoughts:)

I agree, it's worth a discussion if nothing else, hence starting the post.....

[edcam]

I?d prefer the government hadn?t let the NHS down, both prior to and during the pandemic. I?d also prefer that Brexit and the mood of anti-immigration in this country hadn?t done so much to undermine so many who work in the NHS but the clapping every week does at least unite people in being thankful for what we have.

[uncleglen]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?d prefer the government hadn?t let the NHS down,

> both prior to and during the pandemic. I?d also

> prefer that Brexit and the mood of

> anti-immigration in this country hadn?t done so

> much to undermine so many who work in the NHS but

> the clapping every week does at least unite people

> in being thankful for what we have.

How exactly did the government let the NHS down? I presume you mean THIS government- you need to qualify this statement- it is not helpful- just indicative of the loony left of ED- don't go on about privatisation because that is lefty bs and started way before 'this' government.

[edcam]

Anyone with more than one brain cell knows how the Tories want the NHS gone for their profit. I have zero tolerance for what they have done to this country.

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I?d prefer the government hadn?t let the NHS

> down,

> > both prior to and during the pandemic. I?d

> also

> > prefer that Brexit and the mood of

> > anti-immigration in this country hadn?t done so

> > much to undermine so many who work in the NHS

> but

> > the clapping every week does at least unite

> people

> > in being thankful for what we have.

>

> How exactly did the government let the NHS down? I

> presume you mean THIS government- you need to

> qualify this statement- it is not helpful- just

> indicative of the loony left of ED- don't go on

> about privatisation because that is lefty bs and

> started way before 'this' government.

[malumbu]

It's not as black and white as the Tories wanting to privatise the NHS. Rather ten years of austerity, under-investment and the Lansley reforms under the coalition, and the soft nationalism peddled by BoJo that was a key element in the election result, This has contributed to low paid but essential workers, disproportionately made up by those from overseas, in a country where many blame immigrants for damaging the UK economy ('taking our jobs' being a 'burden on society). The truth is very different and lets hope that this is a wake up call.

[Blah Blah]

This is why I think Boris made a point of referencing the international diversity of the NHS staff that looked after him.

On policy though, I could list many things but take just the nursing bursery for example. Taking that away doesn't help us to get more British nurses trained and into the NHS.

So you can not have it both ways. Either you embrace the contribution made by migrant workers in the NHS (and don't bring in silly limits to the starting salary for future migrants, over what any sector actually needs), or you invest properly in training and education, to produce the numbers of young people that not only want to consider a career in the NHS, but (especially when it comes to doctors and nurses) have the talent and passion for science at school level.

Also, the other aspect of under resourcing is that NHS personnel are often pushed to the limits of their productivity, often with consequences for their own health and mental wellbeing. These are all things that are worse under Tory governments than they are under Labour ones, as Tory governments tend to squeeze funding in real terms.

And as much as everyone is suddenly aware of how hard NHS workers work, and appreciates the risks they are taking, I fear that when this is over, and in the light of the huge public debt that will have to be addressed, that any good will expressed now, will not translate into addressing the things I mention above.

[bsand]

I now clap to annoy the people who don't like clapping !

[Shaggy]

There are shades of grey here.

I clap because our NHS staff are being sent to work in dangerous conditions with inadequate protection and they deserve our appreciation. But I would rather they were doing a difficult job, in safe conditions, with the full backing of the state, and being properly paid to do it.

But the Tory lauding of the NHS after years of attacking it is distasteful. And to see Johnson "leading the nation" clapping a few weeks ago made me not want to take part. I am clapping for them BECAUSE they are going above and beyond the call of duty, NOT because the government hypocritically now says we should support the NHS.

[seenbeen]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/342005/Doctors-flee-UK-to-work-abroad

and other health care professionals who received free training as midwives, nurses, physios, nutritionists and then promptly flee into the private sector.

Jeremy Hunt wanted them to work for at least 4 years in the NHS so that the UK tax payer got their money back- but the BMA objected....the armed services require a minimum length of service...

[tomskip]

Well, if you will use a click baity title. If you'd made "My thoughts on clapping for the NHS" your title I doubt it would have had so many views.

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You're right no one cares what I think. Just the

> people who have clicked on this thread and read

> what I think...like you....

[Blah Blah]

seenbeen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and other health care professionals who received

> free training as midwives, nurses, physios,

> nutritionists and then promptly flee into the

> private sector.

Utter tosh. All of those positions require a degree level of education which the STUDENT pays for through the student loan scheme. Even when bursaries existed, they in no way covered the costs of getting those degrees. Most of those degrees are also done at teaching hospitals. No detail of anything in that article either.

The NHS is not the same thing as the Armed services either.

[malumbu]

???

Bursaries, were paid to student nurses, and quite a few of the health care professions, and tuition fees were paid too, until scrapped by the Tories in 2017.

The bursary was a few grand a year and means tested, so lower than the student grant of the previous generation but having ?27k of fees paid made a massive difference in terms of student debt.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nursing-applications-ucas-course-drop-nhs-grants-funding-debt-tuition-fees-costs-a8191546.html