Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance

[micromacromonkey]

I disagree :)

Let's try and work out which risks are worth worrying about rather than assigning equal probability and impact to all risks.

[KidKruger]

What about the deadly infection going around and the need to keep away from one another to avoid spreading the virus ?

Doesn?t that figure in the rose-tinted impression too ?

[hellosailor]

I?m afraid not Allison. I live with two members of my family who are high risk and the virus would likely kill. I don?t agree with you and I can only assume that you?re not in the same position. The rules are there to save lives, not to interpret however we wish or be chilled out about. I envy you your relaxed position but it?s woefully out of touch with many of the population. It would be fab if it was a case of ?don?t worry about what anyone else is doing, just chillax and worry about yourself? but it just isn?t. What other people are doing or failing to do will kill people, as in end their lives, they won?t be here anymore. It?s essential we listen to the guidelines.

[ED Bird]

hellosailor Wrote:

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> I?m afraid not Allison. I live with two members of

> my family who are high risk and the virus would

> likely kill. I don?t agree with you and I can only

> assume that you?re not in the same position. The

> rules are there to save lives, not to interpret

> however we wish or be chilled out about. I envy

> you your relaxed position but it?s woefully out of

> touch with many of the population. It would be fab

> if it was a case of ?don?t worry about what anyone

> else is doing, just chillax and worry about

> yourself? but it just isn?t. What other people are

> doing or failing to do will kill people, as in end

> their lives, they won?t be here anymore. It?s

> essential we listen to the guidelines.

This.

[AllisonAdler]

.

[NewWave]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KK - wasn't being sarcastic - you seem to be

> having a daily run-in with runners - no pun

> intended. From my experience that seems unlucky -

> as from my own observations I am not having the

> same experience as you: I have been out for my

> daily exercise since the lockdown began and had

> one incident with a runner - I chastised them for

> their foolishness in the hope they would not do it

> again to anyone else.

>

> My point was quite clear - there are idiots (not

> just runners) who are risking their health and the

> health of others by ignoring the rules. The

> government is modelling this (I think they

> estimate it can be anything up to 30% of the

> population who will be non-conformist) and they

> will have a point when they will trigger a most

> stringent lockdown to help control the curve.

>

> Timing is key - you have to phase the lockdown and

> the degrees of severity therein. You can clamour

> for a hard lockdown but you cant do that from the

> get-go because research and experience elsewhere

> shows (unless you are in China and the populous is

> more scared of the government than the virus) that

> after 10 - 14 days people start going back to

> normal.

I'm sorry but it isn't only KK every time that I have been out I have either A; Had a run in with a jogger..or to be more precise have a jogger ignore the distancing rules and run right alongside me sometimes within inches.

And B; Cyclists cycling on the pavement causing me to have to step into peoples gardens or into the road to create space.

Finally Parents with young children..please be mindful and make sure your child retains a distance from those on the pavement..I may have the virus or your child could and give to an elderly passer by.

This morning I was walking along the pavement and a woman was allowing her child to just run ahead of her on its scooter..the child passed within inches of me and when I stepped back off the kerb visibly shocked that the kid (about 7 years old) had brushed right near my shopping bag the mother tutted and shouted "oh for heavens sake! he's only a child!" yes..he was and therefore its her responsibility to protect the health and wellbeing of her child as well as that of others.

[hellosailor]

Allison, with respect, you?re misinformed.

Coughing and sneezing is not the only way to pass on the virus. If you are carrying the virus - even if you?re symptomless as a significant percentage of infected people are - and you bear down on someone panting and expelling your breath with a force that experts agree far exceeds the reach of a normal dialogue between two people speaking at a 2 metre distance - you are far likelier to pass on the virus than if you?re complying with the 2 metre guidelines.

We have been asked, in no uncertain terms, to keep a minimum 2 metre distance from each other when taking our daily exercise. Jogging isn?t an exception. Nothing is an exception. We can flatten the curve and save lives only if everyone does what is asked and doesn?t consider themselves a special exception. I love to exercise, I?m used to exercising every day, I wouldn?t dream of ignoring the guidelines. Today I witnessed multiple joggers running down the pavement (and this was next to the park) without breaking their momentum, so that families had to choose between walking into the path of oncoming traffic on a main road or staying put and being 30cm away from them as they panted past.

This isn?t ok.

If you were out buying food and standing at the till and someone came up behind you and stood a few centimetres away and panted you wouldn?t think it was cool. Please don?t encourage people to think it?s scaremongering, that abiding by the rules is creating an atmosphere of anxiety, that the only way to get ill is to have someone cough on you directly.

I?m pleading with you here, with all people who feel as you do, to take this more seriously. The 2 metre distance isn?t a magic shield as you say, but it will save lives. It?s the least we can do. I maintain that I think it?s highly unlikely that you live with several people in the high risk category - I just can?t imagine you?d have this stance if you did - but I do, my elderly mother and my youngest child who both have health conditions, and I really, really, don?t want them to become infected.

[AllisonAdler]

I completely understand your anxieties, hellosailor, but you (all) misunderstand: I am taking this very seriously and I scrupulously keep my distance when I am out walking. I can?t tell you how many times I?ve nearly been mown down by cars, cyclists, and all and sundry trying to do so. I am not misinformed, but I absolutely don?t want people thinking I am suggesting not following guidelines, so I?ve deleted my earlier posts. I know we all feel out of control, but it's the constant lashing out that is very hard to see and not to try to mitigate. I apologise if I?ve caused distress. I lost my husband (aged 56) ten years ago to pneumonia and am a cancer survivor myself. I do not come to this callously or with any lack of due diligence in terms of serious medical research, but I see I?m not helping in the way I?d hoped.

[KidKruger]

Alison, I'll take the odd irate poster on EDF over the advice your are providing (which in my view is dangerous and misleading) any day of the week.

By now many of us know someone, or know someone who knows someone, that has succumbed to this deadly virus.

It may just be the way I read your text, but it comes across as casual and dismissive of behaviours demonstrated by a minority of careless and ignorant people, behaviours which actually ARE dangerous and ARE going to cause more deaths.

No sooner will we be through the first few weeks and we'll be hit by the infections caused through this casual, lazy and self-entitled behaviour.

People are right to point it out, they are right to be concerned and they are right to fear anyone coming too close to them. Now is not the time to be harking on about rights and being polite and not complaining about selfish behaviour, that is way down the priorities because, and this is the important bit, it's literally life and death until beaten.

There isn't much to take a view on and impose personal choice on really.

It's life or death, infected or not infected, protected from casual non-adherence to guidelines, or not.

[mako]

The BBC today reported on its news feed that The dangerous vapour from a cyclist could be up to 20m and runner I think 10m. This is significantly different to walking or standing still which is why particular attention is being made about their conduct, where also considering they are moving at greater speeds it is harder to maintain even 2m compared to keeping that distance from someone walking. Alison your comment 'However, it is highly unlikely, according to all of the medical experts, that a jogger (or child, or cyclist) running by one in an open space poses a danger.' is factually incorrect (it is very easy to find scientists/virologist suggesting contray to what you write).and I request you retract that comment as others may take it as fact.

The main point still no-one has answered is why does anybody need to be jogging anywhere near anyone else esp on the pavements where even 2m distance cannot be maintained. The exercise argument is also pathetic as the vast majority could just as effectively exercise indoors or in their own gardens.

[KidKruger]

mako, people are still in belief that their entitlement to proceed as near normal as they are able is sacred.

If that means getting too close to other people, that's other people's tough luck.

My Run Today > Your Life. This is the decision people who get too close are making.

The only way to deal with this is by looking after yourself and your own space when out and about, it means being verbal and getting into it BEFORE the offender gets too close (if they're not running up behind you, obvs).

One may prove unpopular doing this, but the alternative may be drowning in your own phlegm for a few hours, on your own.

[FlatStanley]

Perhaps we should determine the amount of air a runner emits in 20-30 minutes of jogging whilst in proximity to other humans, versus the air emitted in proximity to others that walkers do in the 60 minutes they are milling about.

Mako, I understand and abhor the joggers who are just not keeping their distance (one ran up behind me in Dulwich park last weekend - there was no one else around...why?!!) but it?s better if we all just call these people out immediately rather than tarring every jogger with the same brush. I too should grow some balls and call them out rather than internally curse their ignorance and get worked up. If I felt like someone would confront me, I?d be less inclined to be an arsehole.

And Mako, the type of people doing this are not the type of people who read a community forum.

[????]

I'm ambivalent about the jogging and virus thing, I've not seen any joggers misbehaving.

However, despite that, I'm very glad joggers are getting a hard time because for years I've felt that they're a bunch of absolute strokers.

[first mate]

On other threads some are framing this as a civil liberties issue and I think that is unhelpful and muddies the waters. This is a finite emergency situation and most people are perfectly able to take some form of vigorous exercise inside their home. Surely this small sacrifice is worth it if it saves lives?

Unfortunately, rather like Boris, there are still lots of people out there who seem to think it won?t happen to them or because they feel well they cannot infect anyone else. Regrettably, no doubt, the runners and cyclists will be out in force to day - warm air and a gentle breeze favours the virus.

[Burbage]

FlatStanley Wrote:

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> it?s better if we all

> just call these people out immediately rather than

> tarring every jogger with the same brush. I too

> should grow some balls and call them out rather

> than internally curse their ignorance

Or carry a full-size umbrella. They're about a metre long and so, held at arm's length, will helpfully indicate the appropriate distance to any wheezing narcissist that happens to be approaching.

[Rockets]

Mako, you chastise someone and ask them to retract for quoting something they have said yet you quote a BBC News Feed that was linked to the previous post on here that was a less than accurate report of research by medium.com. I was very surprised the BBC added it to their news feed as they are mostly good at fact checking.

The second most dangerous thing at the moment, after the virus itself, is misinformation.

[mako]

Just stay at home for a few weeks. Its not that hard.

[keano77]

mako Wrote:

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> Just stay at home for a few weeks. Its not that

> hard.

Oh I dunno. Some people find it hard

French police turn back private jet of holidaymakers from UK

Party of 10 flew into Marseille-Provence airport to be taken by helicopter to luxury Cannes villa

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/french-police-turn-back-private-jet-of-holidaymakers-from-uk

[Rockets]

That French story has so many layers it's just begging to be peeled! Selfish so and so's.

And in Dulwich Park this morning police were on bikes having to move people on who weren't exercising.

[jonnyda1]

Well Allison, I think your post was about right. EDF has been keeping me entertained over the last few weeks, and your post was about the first on this thread that I agreed with. There will always be a small proportion of of walkers, riders, joggers, people in parks, hoarders who spoil it for everyone. Haters always going to hate. Cheers. J.

[TreacleRabbit]

In dulwich Park this morning there was one awful man in a red t-shirt who ran up behind me and my kids, right next to us, 30cm away. We weren?t on the sandy track, just the usual road/pathway. He clearly just couldn?t be bothered to wait or run on the grass, or avoid us. He was very sweaty and spluttering. Very Selfish. About 55-60.

[first mate]

Good article in Guardian that concludes on just the right note. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/10/sunbathing-park-deep-moral-questions-philosophers-coronavirus-individual

[seenbeen]

Or as Mr Spock says in the Wrath of Khan.... ?Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.? Captain Kirk answers, ?Or the one.?

[FineWhine]

Yeah... might be a klingon

[AllisonAdler]

Thank you, jonnyda1, and yes, alas.