Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

Would it really be a utopian dream if:

The cyclists in Dulwich park made the most of the roads being deserted and used them instead of endless loops of the park, swerving around everyone at a time when we're all struggling to keep a safe distance. Hell, they could even organise a Tour de France style event round Dulwich, Crystal Palace & Forest Hill wearing their best lycra.

The joggers in Dulwich park did the same.

The park could then be safely used by families to get their kids out, get them some air without having to shush them out of the way of the above every 2 minutes. Surely it isn't being selfish to prioritise families being able to use the park at this time - is it?

Is it?

[mako]

Whilst generally in agreement with you Ed-Nag there are plenty of families that really could be using their own gardens for some fresh air (obviously not all but more than are at the moment). People living in places without their own outside space should have priority in the park if anyone, be that families-or single people. In fact single people may not get to see other people otherwise, whereas families dont have that.

[AnnaSimmonds]

Do you know what, ive just driven through dulwich and Herne hill and it really does seem like people have given up with following the guidelines, or at least many are liberally interpreting ?essential? - not sure walking with beers or chatting on a bench in the sun counts as exercise. It was shockingly busy just now. There are just too many people in London to be able to stay 2m clear. I wonder if we will need more stringent measures if we don?t see a dip in numbers soon.

[KidKruger]

?There are just too many people in London to be able to stay 2m clear.?

No. Let?s not excuse the selfish minority.

London is not the problem, it?s the same in Huddersfield and Isle of Wight, everywhere.

It is easy enough to be 2m apart.

But people are not prepared to stick consistently to the distancing advice, which requires a little thought, patience and flexibility.

This is why, having given the public a chance (and failed), full lockdown is the only obvious next step.

Give people an inch, they take a mile, so they now need controlling.

700 dead yesterday anyone ?

[Nigello]

There seem to be more cars around today, mostly full of single young men. (I?m viewing from home so not out myself.)

[lindylou]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> ?There are just too many people in London to be

> able to stay 2m clear.?

>

> No. Let?s not excuse the selfish minority.

> London is not the problem, it?s the same in

> Huddersfield and Isle of Wight, everywhere.

> It is easy enough to be 2m apart.

> But people are not prepared to stick consistently

> to the distancing advice, which requires a little

> thought, patience and flexibility.

>

> This is why, having given the public a chance (and

> failed), full lockdown is the only obvious next

> step.

> Give people an inch, they take a mile, so they now

> need controlling.

> 700 dead yesterday anyone ?

Totally agree with you.

[KidKruger]

?There?s nothing wrong with ?joggers? in and off themselves, it?s thoughtless people that are the problem.?

As has been made clear already repeatedly on this and other threads.

No one is saying all joggers are bad, please indicate where this has been done.

[Kept thin]

Deleted

[ebeneezergoode]

Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick to early morning or evening and run in the road.

Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was visually reminded of this on a frosty morning in Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park since.

As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's a war crime!

[fishbiscuits]

mako Wrote:

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> If you have to jog, do in parks. I

> see literally no need to do it on narrow pavements

> in busy areas such as lordship lane beyond

> selfishness and self entitlement.

I don't jog in parks, I jog on pavements and roads at night, when almost nobody is around. On a 1 hour run, I will only see a small number of people - most of whom are out voluntarily, exercising or dog walking. You see each other a mile off, and I just run into the road to give them space. I'm acting responsibly (but not everyone does).

I would not try to make excuses for stupid behaviour such as running along Lordship Lane during the day.

You seem to have softened your stance ever so slightly since your "literally no excuse" comment.. so at this point I shall bow out of the argument.

[first mate]

ebeneezergoode Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick to

> early morning or evening and run in the road.

> Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing

> droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was

> visually reminded of this on a frosty morning in

> Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park

> since.

> As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's a

> war crime!

Thank you! You illustrate the problem perfectly. The jury is currently out on distance required to be safe when breath is forcefully exhaled (coughing, sneezing, panting). With a light breeze to carry droplets further, who knows.

[ED Bird]

Mainly young couples hogging the pavements of Upland/NCR & LL right now. Even those who are clearly aware of the situation; using loud speaker between them, telling their friends they look forward to seeing them soon... meanwhile, hogging the streets & oblivious of other people.

I've given up on pavements completely. I walk in the street & dip in between cars whenever I need to. This hasn't made anyone on the pavement more aware of just how much they're hogging it.

[mako]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ebeneezergoode Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick

> to

> > early morning or evening and run in the road.

> > Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing

> > droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was

> > visually reminded of this on a frosty morning

> in

> > Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park

> > since.

> > As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's

> a

> > war crime!

>

> Thank you! You illustrate the problem perfectly.

> The jury is currently out on distance required to

> be safe when breath is forcefully exhaled

> (coughing, sneezing, panting). With a light breeze

> to carry droplets further, who knows.

A cough can travel 6m a sneeze 8m and breath travels further in warm conditions. Just stay indoors when you can .

[NewWave]

ED Bird Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mainly young couples hogging the pavements of

> Upland/NCR & LL right now. Even those who are

> clearly aware of the situation; using loud speaker

> between them, telling their friends they look

> forward to seeing them soon... meanwhile, hogging

> the streets & oblivious of other people.

>

> I've given up on pavements completely. I walk in

> the street & dip in between cars whenever I need

> to. This hasn't made anyone on the pavement more

> aware of just how much they're hogging it.

Ditto

[seenbeen]

One thing that I've noticed- and it was very alarming on one occasion this week, is that people with children on bikes and scooters are letting them get too near other people. One child was about a foot away from me last week and coughing like mad with both hands on its handlebars, so the cough was totally broadcast.

The child should not have been out at all, and was not being properly supervised.

[FlatStanley]

Stop blaming joggers..! There are ignorant and lazy people everywhere you go. These people may sometimes choose to walk, sometimes cycle, maybe even run, or worse still...roller blade. It?s simple - everyone should make an effort to distance themselves from one another. And that includes moving yourself out of the way of oncoming traffic - it takes two to tango. Don?t just expect cyclists or runners or roller bladers to move - pedestrians must also move. And if you don?t, well don?t whinge when you don?t get the whole pavement to yourself! But on a serious note, I noticed today that people overall were being more conscientious, which is really positive.

And whoever was moaning about parks being for families: bore off. The parks are for everyone.

[KidKruger]

Yes parks for everyone.

[Sue]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Yes parks for everyone.

Provided they stay two metres apart from anyone else.

Which is not happening.

3000 people in Brockwell Park today. WTF.

[first mate]

I?d love to know what proportion of those out in parks etc yesterday feel they have or have had a mild version of covid 19. It seems as though some must know they may be infectious but don?t really care.

[Nigello]

Labour, the UK's main opposition party, will back the government's possible plans to ban outdoor exercise if it was "necessary" to reduce the number of deaths from coronavirus.

Sir Keir Starmer, who was elected Labour leader on Saturday, told the BBC's Andrew Marr: "Every time people break the guidance from the government, they put other people at risk."

His comments come after Health Secretary Matt Hancock said if people continue to "flout the rules" then the government will ban exercise outside of the home.

Sir Keir said the focus has to be ?what is necessary to reduce the number of deaths?. ?- BBC

[mako]

FlatStanley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Stop blaming joggers..! There are ignorant and

> lazy people everywhere you go. These people may

> sometimes choose to walk, sometimes cycle, maybe

> even run, or worse still...roller blade. It?s

> simple - everyone should make an effort to

> distance themselves from one another. And that

> includes moving yourself out of the way of

> oncoming traffic - it takes two to tango. Don?t

> just expect cyclists or runners or roller bladers

> to move - pedestrians must also move. And if you

> don?t, well don?t whinge when you don?t get the

> whole pavement to yourself! But on a serious note,

> I noticed today that people overall were being

> more conscientious, which is really positive.

>

> And whoever was moaning about parks being for

> families: bore off. The parks are for everyone

An issue with joggers/runners/cyclists is that it is harder to maintain the 2m when people are coming at you at a greater speed/it may not be possible to move into the road etc. People need to walk to get to shops for essentials and unless travelling to work do not need to cycle or jog on the pavements. There has been general agreement that those wishing to exercise should do so in the parks, and much of the criticism has been about joggers on pavements.

[Alexthecamel]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yes parks for everyone.

>

>

> Provided they stay two metres apart from anyone

> else.

>

> Which is not happening.

>

> 3000 people in Brockwell Park today. WTF.

from twitter

3000 people doesn?t sound many. What?s normal for first sunny weekend of the year? The park is 51 hectares = 510,000m2, space for 127,500 to socially distance at 2m (or 4m2 each)

There are lots of pictures apparently from yesterday and it looked pretty clear.

Those with gardens should definitely use hem and not add to the congestion in our parks for those who have no choice.

[tfwsoll]

I go out for my walk around 7am and am still having to dodge into the road to avoid joggers or having them pass me very closely from behind. I should say that the majority are being considerate but it only takes one to infect you. As for the 2 meter rule, that is nowhere near enough according to thus study:

https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08

[first mate]

It is only one study but certainly confirms what I have read elsewhere.

[seenbeen]

ebeneezergoode Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick to

> early morning or evening and run in the road.

> Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing

> droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was

> visually reminded of this on a frosty morning in

> Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park

> since.

> As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's a

> war crime!

None of this stuff is getting through. I think the people who think they are invincible will carry on regardless, making life very difficult for us borderline vulnerable people and those that care for the vulnerable.