East Dulwich: new cyclists

[malumbu]

Yes, it would be good to get this across wider. Apologies I am going to steal this link and put it on the lounge. Lovely cycle today, bit chilly, roads empty (no excuse to the two boy racers at more than double the speed limit), a few cyclists but loads of space for walkers, families, joggers, cyclist and one person cheating on an electric scooter. Impeccable behaviour on the one pinch point, the footbridge between Ladywell and Catford on the Waterlink Way. Everyone being polite, smiles and thank yous.

[mako]

Sally Eva Wrote:

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> This is not to do with cycling so I am continuing

> to derail my own thread but Jason Leitch, the

> national clinical director of Scotland, seems to

> have comms skills that no one in the UK government

> has.

>

> This is him on the "three harms" the damage of

> coronavirus, the damage to everyone who has

> cancer, kidney failure and all other ills who may

> miss treatment and the damage inflicted by

> lockdown (mental health, economy, domestic

> violence)

>

>

>

> It's the BBC Scotland "everything has a cost"

> video. The whole thing is interesting.

He says that the priority now is stopping coronavirus and in the long run we need to balance the cost in terms of mental health etc. he isnt arguing that from day 1 of a relatively short lock down everyone needs to hop out for a jolly on their bikes.

Sally please reply to: Can you agree that pretty much every NHS worker and every daily briefing repeatedly says the same thing. Stay at home, save lives. Its really quite simple.

[malumbu]

Watch/listen to the video. It explains it really well. Cooping people up 24/7 does harm, unless you are fortunate enough to be in a large house with extensive grounds. The key message is stay inside, which is being echoed by those most closely associated with the crisis. Stay inside with the exception of essential journeys, for food, and for health reasons, including exercise. Once a day. In your essential journeys socially distance, don't use this as excuse to meet up with friends, play football in the park, sun bathe etc. You will not get 100% compliance but it's pretty good.

By stressing the stay inside this will discourage the worst abuses. This is a measured balanced position by government, recognising that we are not in a police state, and the resources that would require which can be much better used (and the danger of civil unrest if we do have more draconian restrictions).

If you want to stay inside 25/7 fine. Please stop demonising the rest of us.

[fishbiscuits]

mako Wrote:

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> Sally please reply to: Can you agree that pretty much...

Sally has already explained herself perfectly well, and you are in no position to demand anything.

[Sally Eva]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Watch/listen to the video. It explains it really

> well. Cooping people up 24/7 does harm, unless

> you are fortunate enough to be in a large house

> with extensive grounds. The key message is stay

> inside, which is being echoed by those most

> closely associated with the crisis. Stay inside

> with the exception of essential journeys, for

> food, and for health reasons, including exercise.

> Once a day. In your essential journeys socially

> distance, don't use this as excuse to meet up with

> friends, play football in the park, sun bathe etc.

> You will not get 100% compliance but it's pretty

> good.

>

> By stressing the stay inside this will discourage

> the worst abuses. This is a measured balanced

> position by government, recognising that we are

> not in a police state, and the resources that

> would require which can be much better used (and

> the danger of civil unrest if we do have more

> draconian restrictions).

>

> If you want to stay inside 25/7 fine. Please stop

> demonising the rest of us.

He is the national clinical director of Scotland. This is the first time I have heard anyone say that mental health and domestic violence referrals have already risen -- predictable but surprising to see it so quickly.

[mako]

Sally asked a question 'can we agree that..', I simply responded 'please reply to my response.' Not a demand Fishbiscuits. malumbu- obviously i dont want to stay inside 24/7. i have chosen to because I think it in the greater good. I understand that people need to go out, but dont understand those who dont need to and starting talking about police state and civil unrest. You have been asked to stay inside for a few weeks to save lives. The impact on mental and physical health for the vast majority by only going out to shops would be minimal in that time and its pure selfishness driving a lot of your arguments. Greater infection rates are also likely to extend measures which is a much bigger threat to mental and physical state.

[mako]

Sally you have quoted Jason Leitch before in him stating that Convid 19 is not airbourne and that panting is therefore not a problem. the WHO quotes 'People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales.' panting therefore clearly is a major risk.

[seenbeen]

Look at the timer at the top- it takes 6 minutes for the particles to settle....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-coughing-spread-covid-19-grocery-store-researchers/

[exdulwicher]

seenbeen Wrote:

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> Look at the timer at the top- it takes 6 minutes

> for the particles to settle....

> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-coughing-

> spread-covid-19-grocery-store-researchers/

That report is a bit like the "study" with cyclists and runners (linked earlier in this thread) and how they leave plumes of aerosol in their wake. Some unverified / unreviewed theories, some nice modelling (everything looks good with some shiny graphics) and some interesting ideas but the ultimate conclusion from that (if it is vaguely accurate) is simply to shut EVERYTHING. No supermarkets, no shopping of any kind, everyone locked up 24/7 except for people who would come to your door and deliver a tray of food like the catering trolley on an airline.

Going back to what Sally said, it's obvious that there's a balance to be struck here - such extreme measures are likely to do more harm than good in the long term.

Personally, so long as social distancing is adhered to, I see no issue with cycling to work (if you're a key worker) or heading out for a spin around the park with the family just to get some fresh air. It does everyone good (especially kids), it's within the guidelines and it helps to minimise the issues from being inside 24/7. Even prisoners are allowed out for exercise!

[seenbeen]

We've all seen the aerosol pix of people sneezing and how far it travels, and from what I've witnessed none of the coughing,panting, spluttering runners or cyclists put their hands over their mouths. And there are many mentions of instances where social distancing is not adhered to especially by teenagers and builders.

People need to be aware of what is going on around them even if they themselves practice social distancing and all the hygiene because it only takes 1 second for a selfish/ignorant/unwary person to invade your space.

[mako]

Even if we use the 2m figure pretty much every cyclist on the road passes within two meters of pedestrians. Its close to impossible in somewhere like lordship lane between 8am and 7pm to cycle this route and ensure social distancing. Extreme measures in the short term could attempt to stop it being long term. Cyclists at least could do the decency of wearing a face mask and for some reason the wearing of helmets seems to have gone out of fashion.

[Occamsracer]

That's true, this virus can take your head clean off. I saw it on medium. make sure you're wearing your virus helmets people.

[malumbu]

I am still unclear on why this thread attracts those that want to criticise cyclists. Maybe SE22 is a parallel universe but I am going on quiet routes seeing a few walkers, joggers and other cyclists, and the odd speeding car but 99%++ allows me two metres from other humans. I know where the few bottle necks are and wait my turn. Cyclist should adopt the primary position in the road and as we have so few cars breathing down our necks this is easier than usual. This position is well away from the pavement, there is generally no need to weave in-between cars so we don't come close to open windows. At times we stop to allow others clear priority and on the parks/paths I use I have no problems with moving onto the grass to give pedestrians clear distance. Most others out smile, thank you, or interact in other positive ways.

I fear far more the shopping isles, and no matter how well the queues are managed it is almost impossible to keep 2 metres away from others during most shops.But that is a separate discussion.

This outdoor life many of us are enjoying for the 30 mins or so each day should be celebrated.

[mako]

This isnt about you malumbu and whether you are having a fun time.

[Occamsracer]

If you don't think it's possible to ride down Lordship Lane 2m away from people, when Lordship Lane has car parking along great stretches of it, I'm struggling to understand why anyone should take anything you say seriously.

[malumbu]

mako Wrote:

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> This isnt about you malumbu and whether you are

> having a fun time.

What that is me well and truly told. I'll get the t-shirt printed and send a letter to the Times. I did prefer the other slogan though, be nice and don't behave like a twot and we will get through this.

[mako]

Take your average 105 year old walking down Lordship Lane with his 15 dogs he doesnt want to take to the park. He's not going to walk in a straight line. He's going to get near the edge of the pavement. He could breathe in the selfish cyclists virus, die, and his dogs might chase the cyclist. The cyclist hasnt got a helmet on cracks his head open and has to go to A and E using up NHS resource.

Just stay indoors if you are capable. Being bored isnt the same as incapable.

[Occamsracer]

How wide do you think cars are?

[mako]

Typical dulwich range rover probably about 2m

[Occamsracer]

That's erring on the side of caution but add to that the recommended 1.75m to take you out of the door zone and that puts you at least 3.75m from the edge of the kerb.

[DuncanW]

Mako - are you a parody account?

[mako]

No why do you ask?

[mako]

Occamsracer Wrote:

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> That's erring on the side of caution but add to

> that the recommended 1.75m to take you out of the

> door zone and that puts you at least 3.75m from

> the edge of the kerb.

Occamsracer, how wide do you think the road is

[NewWave]

My partner is a key worker.

In order to get to and from work (he has been doing 11hour plus days during this pandemic)he brought a bike and cycles to his place of work I really dont understand why people are being anti cyclists as long as they dont cycle on the pavement and wear the appropriate safety gear.

The only cyclists I dont approve of are the ones (sometimes whole families) who insist on cycling on the pavement or the ones who dont wear helmets mainly because should they come a cropper they are putting more strain on our overstretched NHS and A&E depts.

To be honest I wish I was able to ride a bike because its getting pretty damn boring taking my daily exercise on foot back and forth to Dulwich park or Peckham Rye.

[mako]

Dont know how much of the thread you have read but there has been universal support for the people who need to cycle for work reasons to be able to