East Dulwich: new cyclists

[Sally Eva]

In the new world of lockdown, some people are thinking of beginning to cycle. There are many reasons why a person might want to cycle for the first time. If that's you, post here or DM me. I shall not inquire into your personal reasons. I shall try and help you.

Key workers (guidance here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-maintaining-educational-provision/guidance-for-schools-colleges-and-local-authorities-on-maintaining-educational-provision) can get free cycle training from cycle confident https://cycleconfident.com/covid19/

There are many other reasons why people might wish to cycle as their form of permitted exercise. I belong to Southwark Cyclists who are the borough branch of the London Cycling Campaign. Our website is here https://southwarkcyclists.org.uk. Our email address is [email protected]. If we can assist you, just let us know.

[jimlad48]

And please don't ride on the pavements or go through red lights on pedestrian crossings - I know its scary at times, but please remember those of us on foot too!

[Sally Eva]

sometimes riding on pavements is permitted and will be marked as permitted. But it should always be considerate.

Not stopping at pedestrian red lights is not permitted and never considerate.

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> And please don't ride on the pavements or go

> through red lights on pedestrian crossings - I

> know its scary at times, but please remember those

> of us on foot too!

[intexasatthe moment]

Sally - how lovely of you !

[first mate]

It is a very generous offer and clearly well intentioned.

I normally cycle but am now wondering if this is wise? Groups of cyclists stopping at lights etc may not be a good thing in terms of social distancing. If you are cycling you will probably be panting at some point. If only few cyclists probably okay but if cycling increases to avoid public transport then not so sure this is a good idea while C19 is a major threat to public health?

[Sally Eva]

CV is not airborne so panting shouldn't be a problem. I find Jason Leitch CMO of Scotland good and I hope that a clip of him saying "the virus is not airborne" is here:

at about 2.51, it's their pinned tweet.

Essential workers are essential and this is mostly about them. These are to help someone get to St George's Tooting for example.

https://cycle.travel/map/journey/145302

either should help someone who wants to cycle to stay alive. Clearly there is a faster alternative for anyone who is OK with CS7 which will probably be more crowded. That is here: https://cycle.travel/map/journey/145192

Southwark Cyclists have cancelled our social rides because of a fear that regular riders will find social distancing difficult. I'm with you on the dangers........

[first mate]

It is not thought to be airborne over long distances but short distances they are not so sure. So, even on bicycles, people should keep a good distance from one another.See https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/infection-control/control-recommendations.html

[JohnL]

The majority of people (essential workers excepted as stated above) should now be working from home and not going out except for groceries and other essentials (arguably that includes exercise and walking pets).

The roads should be mostly clear but they aren't - Loads of traffic & everybody beeping at each other.

Where is everyone going.

[se22cat]

To Hell.

[Sally Eva]

The CDC report seems to be talking about medical facilities caring for seriously ill patients rather than people out in the open air.

However, there does seem to be ambiguity about precisely what "airborne" means. This is only Wired so a journalistic summary of the arguement: https://www.wired.com/story/they-say-coronavirus-isnt-airborne-but-its-definitely-borne-by-air/

"Notably, while the joint WHO-China mission report published in late-February said that although airborne particles were ?not believed to be a major driver of transmission,? it noted that such a mode ?can be envisaged if certain aerosol-generating procedures are conducted in health care facilities.?

Julian Tang and his colleagues have created a visualization of the breaths exchanged by two people in conversation standing three feet apart. Most of the time, the puffs of air they let out remain separate; but portions of their exhalations do sneak from each person?s breathing space into the other?s.

"Given all this uncertainty, some experts say there needs to be better public messaging on the spread of the new coronavirus. ?Crowded public transport where people can breathe on each other may also lead to transmission of infection,? Tang says, echoing public-health advice that, while widespread, may not be getting as much emphasis as hand-washing. Milton agrees, adding that it might be wise to shut off air-recirculation systems in cars, which could potentially spread the pathogen among passengers."

I agree that the big crowds of cyclists on the superhighways queuing at the lights wouldn't fit a definition of "social distancing". The truth as always seems more nuanced than appears at first glance.

[first mate]

Hi Sally, yes the CDC advice is directed to medical facilities but, as you conclude, the explanation indicates that C19 can be airborne at short distance, especially with propulsion (coughing, sneezing, forceful exhalation - panting). Outside, breezes can carry exhaled droplets further thereby aiding possibility of infection.

Given people can be asymptomatic while infectious I think the risks are clear. Any group activity, whether cycling, walking, jogging is currently too high risk. I also think 2m may not enough in terms of social distancing.

Agree the point about air recirculation in cars and this had occurred to me. This whole thing is a minefield!

[JohnL]

It's been clarified this morning that social distancing does not mean going out for "journeys" in the car and if we go out for exercise it should be locally to where we live.

We also must stay 2m apart (on Sky News the presenters outside No10 are doing this carefully)

[first mate]

So, ?escape to the country?, whether in car, camper van or, for a more extended period, to one?s second home (for those fortunate to have one), is also massively irresponsible.

[JohnL]

first mate Wrote:

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> So, ?escape to the country?, whether in car,

> camper van or, for a more extended period, to

> one?s second home (for those fortunate to have

> one), is also massively irresponsible.

Seems so - and Caravan Parks etc. are being closed (unless they are of use to NHS etc.)

Example https://www.devonlive.com/news/uk-caravan-motorhome-club-close-3973349

If you have a proper bricks and mortar second home I suppose no-one at the moment can stop people going there - not sure how many people do.

[first mate]

I think the fear is pressure on local resources whether food or NHS.

Also, given a part of the population is currently asymptomatic but highly infectious and London are two weeks ahead, then anyone travelling out risks spreading infection. Of course, those in second homes may be intending not to go out at all for the duration. However, to make that achievable they will have had to stockpile- still not a ?good look?.

[jimlad48]

Speaking to a friend in a remote part of the country, Londoners are causing significant upset by turning up to their second homes (meaning people in the high risk age bracket) and emptying local stores of stocks in order to stockpile, creating shortages where none previously existed. A lot of local stores now refusing to sell unless you are a full time local resident.

[Sally Eva]

Boris Johnson last night

"That is why people will only be allowed to leave their home for the following very limited purposes:

Shopping for basic necessities, as infrequently as possible.

One form of exercise a day - for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household;

Any medical need, to provide care or to help a vulnerable person; and

Travelling to and from work, but only where this is absolutely necessary and cannot be done from home.

That's all - these are the only reasons you should leave your home."

The roads are emptier but everyone on them seems to be in a very bad temper so, if you are choosing cycling

for exercise then take a look at our social ride routes on line https://southwarkcyclists.org.uk/healthy-rides/healthy-ride-of-the-week/. These should be safe from traffic and social distancing will keep you safe from CV

[binkylilyput]

I'm really enjoying cycling at the moment, much quieter and the sun is wonderful. Might be a nice time to try it out in London. Do be careful though because people aren't necessarily expecting a bicycle coming at the moment so pedestrians stepping out and wandering all over the place! Same for cars whizzing along.

I agree with you Sally Eva about the bad temper thing- this forum is rammed full of finger pointing, judging and blaming!

[Sally Eva]

A friend was trying to buy a bike so she could get out of the house safely and found Halfords had run out.

If anyone in this position wants to buy a bike then Lewisham Cyclists have a couple which they can service, wash with hot soapy water and isopropyl and deliver. They are a charity and would appreciate a donation because they are currently broke.

If that sounds like what you want, DM me and I will put you in touch

[malumbu]

Thanks Sally - cycling is great. Others, please do not ambush this thread. Doing my daily walk or cycle every day feels like a Sunday with so little traffic and almost everybody enjoying the outdoors and keeping their distance. Please let us keep this one pleasure and not go down the route of France. Yes, don't drive or get the train out to do your exercise.

Sadly Brenchley gardens, even with much less traffic, still feels like a motorised vehicle race track. But that is an issue for another day.

[Sally Eva]

Cycle Confident are doing free bike training for key workers

https://www.cycleconfident.com

There is a government list of key workers here. Social distancing will still apply obvs

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-maintaining-educational-provision/guidance-for-schools-colleges-and-local-authorities-on-maintaining-educational-provision

[malumbu]

Today's route over to Greewich and Blackheath, through the park. Fairly empty - I think the cold is putting people off coming outside. You can combine parts of Waterlink Way.

https://www.letsride.co.uk/routes/greenwich-blackheath

[Sally Eva]

malumbu Wrote:

>

> Sadly Brenchley gardens, even with much less

> traffic, still feels like a motorised vehicle race

> track. But that is an issue for another day.

There's a now-closed consultation. https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/brenchley-gardens-20mph/.

[malumbu]

Agghhh, not more traffic calming. Need average speed cameras. I've worked in transport and expect we will have met, but government kowtowing to motorists really pees me off. Once we have a culture of speed cameras it will be like the ban in smoking in pubs and restaurants, within a few weeks it will be normal and the world will be a better place for it.

As this is a thread aimed at new cyclists a time to remind all of us on assertive positioning, primary where possible (in in the middle of the available space on our lane). The one place where primary is difficult is the Brenchley Gardens race track. Dunno when Southwark did the speed survey, 26mph as they report would be a decent result. I expect the people doping the survey had hi-vis on with a big sign up saying that they were monitoring speed. Or they did it based on a sample of one very careful driver. My experience is 50mph.

[Annasfield]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Today's route over to Greewich and Blackheath,

> through the park. Fairly empty - I think the cold

> is putting people off coming outside. You can

> combine parts of Waterlink Way.

>

> https://www.letsride.co.uk/routes/greenwich-blackh

> eath

Thanks for sharing

I was doing 16 miles a day commuting to and from work, so I?m really missing that mileage. Might do that route tomorrow.

I worry about being too far from home in case of being in breach of the rules though?