What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?

[jamesmcash]

Hi all,

Lordship Lane pavements have been widened. This is something we pushed for right at the beginning of the lockdown. Not sure why it took so long but better late than never!

The permeable filter on Melbourne Grove South is up and running too.

Let us know if there are other measures you think we should consider.

Best wishes

James

[EDmummy101]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> I second that. A service to help get food and

> other supplies to those having to self isolate

> with no resources to call upon for help. That can

> be just about anyone in genuine need, and not

> currently under any Adult Social Care package.

I agree - my mum struggled with this at one point when supermarket delivery slots were hard to come by.

Could possibly enlist local charities to assist too? LinkAge do a marvellous job for example

If people wish to help I would suggest joining LinkAge or similar as a telephone befriender - that means more support for the elderly and more response when they need something, whether food or medicine etc.

[EDmummy101]

More cycle storage and lobbying for that please - already a shortage and more of us (in terraces and flats) buying bikes owing to Covid - THANK YOU

[EDmummy101]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Good point on the child care for essential workers

> and should be entirely doable. We need to hear

> local councils now make statements around action

> plans and see them lobbying government for the

> extra help they will need.

>

> And to add that it is going to have to be local

> authorities guiding government on what is needed

> here, because we are being governed by those

> sheltered from the lives of ordinary people by

> privilege and antiquated ideas from the past

> around 'Dunkirk spirit' and all that. Boris

> Johnson is completely out of his depth.

Completely agree

[Earl Aelfheah]

Great to finally see some pavement widening outside the fish mongers.

Would be good to get something done by M&S. The metal barriers need to be removed and the pavement widened.

[Rockets]

James, Lordship Lane pavements have been widened at one point outside Moxons. Is that it? Hundreds of suggestions were made to you via this forum and the interactive map set-up by the council - how many of these suggestions have actually been actioned?

It appears the council have been found sleeping at the wheel when it comes to assisting social distancing on Lordship Lane......

[first mate]

James, I am sure you will agree, given you say you pushed for these measures right at the start of the covid crisis, it is shocking a modicum of proper interventions to aid social distancing have only just started to trickle through It is even more bizarre that you are not quite sure why it has taken so long? Is it possible please to find out and let us know exactly what the holdup has been?

jamesmcash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi all,

>

> Lordship Lane pavements have been widened. This is

> something we pushed for right at the beginning of

> the lockdown. Not sure why it took so long but

> better late than never!

>

> The permeable filter on Melbourne Grove South is

> up and running too.

>

> Let us know if there are other measures you think

> we should consider.

>

> Best wishes

> James

[almost peckham]

One thing the council could have done would have been to have recognised and argued for the retention of public open space. Particularly open space near residents with little access to gardens. Instead, Southwark council seem to be on the verge of gifting Greendale fields to an overseas property developer to buid on for private profit. The road-width path behind the football ground will become a narrow path again once building works commences making social distancing next to impossible for those children and parents walking to school along this popular route. Utter hypocrisy.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@James - are there any further plans for creating some space outside shops on Lordship Lane? You almost have to push passed the queue outside M&S and there are plenty of other pinch points too.

It's great that the council are creating more space in the most affluent and lowest density neighbourhood in the borough (The Village), but a little help in ED would be appreciated too.

[jamesmcash]

Hi all,

I have asked the council to do an investigation of the pavements on Lordship Lane to ascertain which sections need further measures. Using previous suggestions we looked at the following areas four times last Saturday

- Post Office area

- M & S

- Stretch of shop @ Moxon?s

- William Rose Butchers

With the social distancing measures in place around Moxon's, all four areas showed no issues.

Do others have different experiences? Or are there other places we should look at insteaD?

Best wishes

James

[Rockets]

James,

Can you clarify what you mean by no issues? There are always long queues of people outside M&S, the Post Office and William Rose and the pavements are narrow at those points. There are also choke points outside SMBS Foods, GBK and Franca Manca - perhaps you should wander down and take a look for yourself.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@James, The queue for M&S often stretches round the corner on to Chesterfield Grove. There is a pedestrian barrier which runs alongside LL, parallel to this queue. The queue is not always present, but at times when it is there is no way that one can pass whilst maintaining the required distance. I'll take some photos tomorrow and post them and you can explain how there is 'no problem'.

More generally, why are the council not reclaiming parking / road space, to create room for seating outside cafes, pubs and restaurants, as in many other parts of the Capital? We have a couple of months of potential good weather, where you may be able to help these businesses out if you act quickly and show the same sense of urgency as many other boroughs have.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@James:

Here is a picture from Chesterfield Road of the M&S queue (I will take one of Lordship Lane if I remember, next time I'm there). It worse on LL because of the pavement barrier, but as you can see, even on Chesterfield it is hard to pass the queue maintaining a proper distance.

[first mate]

And for those of us that absolutely do need a car for vital journeys where neither walking, cycling or public transport is a viable or remotely realistic option, where do residents park their cars, as you now seem to be suggesting space on side streets also needs to be given up for queuing shoppers?

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm suggesting that the council should ensure that people can follow the social distancing rules when visiting businesses along Lordship Lane. But you know- it's probably all about you and your car.

[first mate]

An unfair and snide response Rahrahrah. If you cannot block off even more of the high street to accommodate social distancing then surely the only other option is to start to ?reclaim? parking on side streets? It isn?t ?all about me and my car? it is about finding a reasonable balance. For some the car is a necessary ?evil?; unfortunately I fall into that category. I?d love to be in a position where that was not the case and it must be wonderful for those (like you?) that can choose to be car-less.

[Earl Aelfheah]

first mate Wrote:

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> An unfair and snide response Rahrahrah. If you

> cannot block off even more of the high street to

> accommodate social distancing then surely the only

> other option is to start to ?reclaim? parking on

> side streets? It isn?t ?all about me and my car?

> it is about finding a reasonable balance. For some

> the car is a necessary ?evil?; unfortunately I

> fall into that category. I?d love to be in a

> position where that was not the case and it must

> be wonderful for those (like you?) that can choose

> to be car-less.

I think we have to prioritise social distancing and saving local businesses right now, even if it means some loss of parking.

I don't think this is a thread to talk about the gripes of some drivers, but as you have raised it - I am very much in favour of a 'reasonable balance' in terms of how public space is allocated. The current domination of motor vehicles over almost every public space is not balanced.

TFL estimate that around 40% of adults in the borough, have household access to car.

There are 3 million licensed vehicles in London with the average car spending 95% of it's time parked (around half of these are 'stored' on the street). A third of journeys are less than 2km.

The amount of public space allocated just to cars left parked in the street is equivalent to around 10 Hyde Parks. We allocate very, very little dedicated space to pedestrians, cyclists etc. in comparison.

[Earl Aelfheah]

... but you know, heaven forbid that people should be able to pass one another safely in the street.

[first mate]

So let those who can give up their cars do so right now and lead by example. Then others, who currently genuinely have to use a car, won?t end up totally hamstrung by the inference that certain streets, where those making the suggestion probably do not live, should be forced to give up parking to facilitate social distancing for shoppers.

With the amount of people currently paying little or any heed to SD, very few wearing masks, I also query the real value of imposing these changes at the moment. If we go back into lockdown road traffic will be much reduced anyway and SD become easier.

Finally, a genuine need is not a ?gripe?.

[Penguin68]

... but you know, heaven forbid that people should be able to pass one another safely in the street.

In this weather, sunny and breezy, and if you are talking about actually walking past people and not stopping to chat, then a metre or less of clearance will be quite safe. The 2 metre rule (which anyway now has been reduced) reflected long (10 minutes or more) contact in enclosed spaces (so still relevant for e.g. shops and supermarkets). Actually, normal walking at normal clearances, even unmasked, is almost entirely risk free in these weather conditions. Bumping into people is different, of course, but I really wouldn't be worried about passing people quite close in the street.

Of course, if you yourself are symptomatic, stay at home and isolate.

[Pugwash]

My daughter who is a NHS worker states that on her ward when they had a covid patient (in a single room) they were advised not t0 spend more than 15 minutes in the room, to wash hands before and after going into room and wear mask and apron. As Penguin stated above - just walking past someone in the street is fairly risk free - less so if they are coughing and sneezing and neither of you are wearing masks .

[Earl Aelfheah]

So we need not worry about social distancing. The council should not concern itself, we can all push past each other. Ok

[Earl Aelfheah]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ... but you know, heaven forbid that people should

> be able to pass one another safely in the street.

>

> In this weather, sunny and breezy, and if you are

> talking about actually walking past people and not

> stopping to chat, then a metre or less of

> clearance will be quite safe. The 2 metre rule

> (which anyway now has been reduced) reflected long

> (10 minutes or more) contact in enclosed spaces

> (so still relevant for e.g. shops and

> supermarkets). Actually, normal walking at normal

> clearances, even unmasked, is almost entirely risk

> free in these weather conditions. Bumping into

> people is different, of course, but I really

> wouldn't be worried about passing people quite

> close in the street.

>

> Of course, if you yourself are symptomatic, stay

> at home and isolate.

Good to hear that there is no risk of Transmission ?in this weather?. And asymptomatic transmission isn?t a thing after all. As long as you?re outside you can?t catch coronavirus! No need to keep your distance or wear a mask. Great

[Penguin68]

Good to hear that there is no risk of Transmission ?in this weather?. And asymptomatic transmission isn?t a thing after all. As long as you?re outside you can?t catch coronavirus! No need to keep your distance or wear a mask. Great

You seem very keen to put words in my mouth - I didn't say (as you suggest above) that you could 'push past people' - indeed I said that 'bumping into' people was different.

And it is the government's own scientists who are clear that in the open air, in wind and sunshine, the virus dissipates and dies quickly. I never said there was 'no risk' - just that the risk was substantially reduced. And the 2 metre/ 10 minute rule (again) was specifically referencing indoors encounters - something I was again clear about. If you exclude from 'the public' symptomatic people you are left with the active asymptomatic - probably on current figures a third of the actively unwell may be asymptomatic.

Most recent figures show Southwark with 1493 confirmed cases - if we assume that these are self isolating then possibly another 800 are asymptomatic. Southwark has a population of 332,000 so on that basis every 415 person you walk past might be an asymptomatic carrier.

The 'rules' about social distancing in social (i.e. if you're chatting) conditions - and indeed hand-washing, still apply - so I would still maintain that walking past (not brushing past) people within 2 metres, indeed within one metre in warm, sunny and breezy conditions is relatively (not absolutely, of course) safe.

Creating sufficient outside space so that no one ever comes within 2 metres of anyone else would be madness. And very unnecessary.

[Earl Aelfheah]

If you have to push past the queue outside M&S, you're getting extremely close to others (have a look at the photo of Chesterfield). It only takes someone to cough or sneeze as you're squeezing past to risk infection. The council should be making sure that it's possible to walk down the street comfortably, whilst maintaining reasonable distance from others.

We're not talking about normal walking at normal clearances, because there are queues on the street which didn't exist before. And to suggest that outside in good weather, you are almost entirely risk free is certainly not in line with current guidance.