What do you do with toddlers in the evening on holiday?

[MrsLL2b]

I am probably being really thick, but I am trying to plan our first proper holiday abroad with our toddler and really struggling to get my head around the logistics of having a child around in the evenings!

I must admit I am a stickler for routine and bedtime. So I am going to try to be a bit more relaxed and let her stay up a bit later/go with the flow a bit more. But the way I see it the options are:

a. allow your child to stay up, bring the buggy out with you and maybe they will doze off in it? Really can't see our toddler doing this as she is a nosy little thing and tends to get hyper with tiredness. She also hasn't slept in a buggy for as long as I can remember.

b. all eat together early-ish and we end up sitting quietly on the balcony or something and go to bed early. Sounds fun.

I had hoped to book a small apartment within a small family run, independent set up (see my other post) but budget constraints are meaning we will probably have to consider a half board package style holiday. The first option would mean we would at least have a living space to use in the evening.

On package holidays are kids allowed in the restaurants in the evening, or would we just have to eat with her very early? I have found one or two that look nice within budget which have two room apartments. We would still all have to sleep in the same room but we would at least have somewhere to sit once she has gone to bed.

Sorry for rambly post, I have been looking at holiday and flight websites all evening and my head is ready to explode with the complexity of it all. Don't even get me started on flight timings!!

[snowboarder]

Hmm we tend to go for self catering apartments/villas and feed the little ones early evening then eat later once they are in bed - as at home. Really can't think of anything worse than being in a hotel room with them or keeping them up yet - in time maybe...:-)

[redjam]

If you can get two rooms do, so that you've got some flexibility if your toddler is tired and needs to go to bed early one night. But generally I'd say keep him/her up a little later than usual and try to be chilled out about it (and bear in mind useful time differences - 8pm here can be 10pm abroad in summer!). It helps if you're in a very child-friendly country like Greece or Italy where they make a big fuss of kids and don't mind if they make a noise when you eat out.

Our first holiday away with a baby was a bit of a disaster as we went to a cottage in France, off-season so it was all very quiet. On the couple of nights we attempted to eat out, we sat in a virtually empty restaurant under the watchful eye of the patron, completely unable to relax in case our baby yelled or needed a breastfeed *shudders at memory*. So we ended up self-catering and staying in the cottage most nights and playing a lot of Scrabble! The next year we learned our lesson and went to a busy family resort in Greece where we ate outside every night in the bustling cafes overlooking the bay, and our one-year-old toddled happily about getting under everyone's feet and having a lovely fuss made of her by all the waiters. So I do think it all depends on how relaxed/busy the resort is.

Also bear in mind that many resort hotels will provide babysitting services so you can enjoy one or two 'grown-up' meals safe in the knowledge that your child is tucked up in bed. It's a bit scary first time you try this as you are basically leaving your child with a virtual stranger, but we've tried this in many hotels over the years and we've never had a problem (obviously check the babysitter's experience and credentials carefully with the hotel and make sure they can speak good English if you're abroad).

Good luck and bon voyage!

[katgod]

We mainly do self catering keep them up a bit later and then sit outside chatting while littlest one is asleep- bigger ones might be watching a DVD or riding bikes/playing football. And we go with friends so sociable in evenings.In a hotel earlier this year we ate early then went for a stroll and to the playground and put her to bed around 8.30-9. The hotel entertainment wasn't to our taste so no hardship and nowhere really to go at that particular resort. It depends where you are and what there is to do. I would rather sit on my balcony and drink wine with husband while children sleep than have a fractious toddler in a soft play/trampoline type bar full of other English people with noisy children!! But that is just my choice. There will be plenty of small children up late and if you are going to Spain or similar on a package there will be plenty in the dining room too.

[Norfolkvillas]

If not self-catering, we go for hotels which offer room types with two separate spaces - eg sitting area and bedroom, and then just shift the cot from one to the other - in the bedroom for afternoon nap and in the evening, then we carry the cot (with him in it) through to the sitting area when we want to go to bed. Doing this has never woken him up, so this tactic could work for the two room apartments you mention?

We also take our baby monitor and use a free app called I think Evoz which allows you to listen from eg your iPhone to your iPad as long as both are connected to wifi. I know this wouldn't be for everyone though.

We have also found that a 2 hour eastbound time difference really works for us (eg Greece, Turkey, Cyprus etc) as we keep our son on Uk time which means 9 - 9.30am starts and 8.30 - 9pm bedtimes, so we have the choice of eating together at 7ish or we eat later after putting him to bed.

[dulwichgirl2]

Have you looked at mark Warner? They do evening cr?ches when a lot of people leave babies in lines of cots or children watching films (supervised and signed in and out). There are two MW staff babysitting. I asked about them and their careers with the company etc. We have done this a few times and I prefer it to the other options you went through. I would never leave my ch with a single person hotel babysitter in the uk or abroad. Never. Re mark Warner, it can get a bit expensive so you should look out for their offers and be prepared to go anywhere the offers apply on a few weeks' notice if you can. This evening cr?che thing is included in the holiday price though day time (never used by us but heavily relied upon by our friends) is extra.

Ideally I would love large suites with space for sleeping ch separately but we can't afford that. Self catering apartments I don't see as a holiday for me.

Ultimately I have taken the view that holidays are pretty rubbish with children but they love them and I chose to have the children after all.

[GCOakley]

remember that if you go somewhere hot like spain, greece etc, you will all want to be having a siesta anyway, so little one may be more perky in the evenings. having lived in hot places for many a year i can tell you that it's far better to have a sleep when it't hot and have the children up til late...than have an overheated and grumpy toddler in the middle of the day. do what local parents do....have a big lunch and then in the evening go to the plaza, square, whatever, and have a coffee or a beer and a snack whilst little ones run around.

[crystal7]

Tricky! Holidays with children are hard to get used to...We've stayed in a hotel, all in the same room, for weekends and its ok but definitely wouldn't do it for longer than that! In the past we have done self catering and put daughter to bed and then eaten later. I've always tried to get places where we can outside so it al least feels a bit like a holiday. Agree though it is annoying having to cook for fussy toddler still. Going with friends and their kids is good for reciprocal babysitting can happen. Recently we've kept our 3.5 year old up (olympics and a wedding) and she's surprised us by coping well. We just let her have a sleep after lunch. It might be worth a try? Our 10 month old wasn't so flexible though...

[bobby's bear]

We've recently got back from a holiday in Turkey with our 22 month old. We have had quite a few holidays with her but the most recent was by far the best as with trial and error we have discoverd that what works best for us is

1) Being self catering, or at least having 2 rooms, nothing worse than having to tiptoe around / hide on the balcony with the light off etc.

2) Keeping her on UK time, so she was waking about 9, having lunch at 2ish and then a long nap from 3-5 with bed about 9.30/10. This ment we could take her out for dinner and tbh by 10/11 after she had gone to bed we were ready to sleep too. It does mean that the day starts later but.......

3) Have realistic expectations about what you're going to manage each day especially when it is hot, we found having a pool a godsend and that was bsaically all we did (sunsuit, hat and plenty of SPF 50 and we avoided burning all together)

All those warm southern european countries love little ones and in Turkey everyone made such a fuss of our daughter so eating out was easy as there were plenty of people to give her attention!

Also toddlers are much more flexible than we give them credit for and despite a loosening of routine on holiday we always find she gets back into the 'normal' swing of things quickly when home.

Enjoy!

[patt1980]

It is a tricky one and not one we have totally mastered yet either but one thing that has worked for us when staying in a half board style hotel is to put our daughter to bed in the travel cot at her normal time 7pm and then move her to her buggy after half an hour or so whilst asleep with a snoozeshade blackout on. We have then sat at the quieter end of the hotel restaurant and eaten and had a few glasses of wine with her asleep in the buggy. She is not a great sleeper and we'd never be able to take her out awake and get her to sleep (also very nosy) in the buggy but we find once she is in a deep sleep she doesn't wake up too easily. Hope you have a nice holiday whatever you decide!

[MrsLL2b]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the advice and words of wisdom.

I agree having an apartment or two rooms is ideal. I think going to a large villa with one or two other families is probably a good compromise. It we have left it too late to organise anything like that this year. I don't want to be totally self catering as it wouldn't be much of a holiday for me.

I know mark Warner well. We have stayed in their ski resorts a few times and my husband has also worked three seasons for them many moons ago! It was the hotel room set up that put me off there. But it is looking like at this stage a package Hol might be the way forward for this year.

I shall report back if I happen to stumble upon the holy grail of holidays with kids!!

Thanks again.

[redjam]

Dulwich Girl2: ' I would never leave my ch with a single person hotel babysitter in the uk or abroad. Never.'

DG - can I ask why? As I've stated above, I've used hotel babysitters several times and found them to be a good (if expensive) way of ensuring you can have a grown-up meal after you've put the children to bed yourself and settled them to sleep. We only ever eat in the hotel itself, so we are no more than a few minutes away if we're needed (we leave our phone number). The babysitters tend to be middle-aged ladies who work regularly for the hotel and have CRB checks etc - most seem to work in the hotel creche during the day or have other formal childcare experience. Obviously if we didn't feel comfortable with the person on offer, we would cancel the booking and wouldn't leave our kids with them.

I'm intrigued why you so emphatically imply this is a bad childcare choice?

[Ruth_Baldock]

"Ultimately I have taken the view that holidays are pretty rubbish with children but they love them and I chose to have the children after all."

I don't know whether to nod my head in agreement, or be really depressed by this. It's what you make of it, your expectations and such! We went to New York with two; 3mo and 21mo, and we had an excellent time! Did I expect to spend time quaffing cocktails in downtown bars? Leisurly days spent in Macy's/Bloomingdales? No! Did I expect to stay in the most touristy bit of the city, and end up in Central Park a LOT? Yes. I also spent a ridicolous amount of time in Starbucks' all over Manhatten breastfeeding. It was great! Having said that, I have been saving since then to go back minus the children when they are about 4 and 5 so I can 1) Have a tiny handbag, 2) Not wander around looking touritsy with a Maclaren in tow (with a BA tag on it, natch...) and 3)DO WHAT I DAMN WELL PLEASE.

I don't know what the point of this comment was. Sorry.

[Norfolkvillas]

With ref to the same quote as Ruth has highlighted, we've had some lovely holidays with our now 2yrs9mths old, and the most recent last month really felt like the relaxation factor took a big step in the right direction, with lots of independent play on my son's part, and lots of sitting around on sunloungers on the part of my husband and I.

It doesn't come cheap though. I guess we are making the choice to have shorter holidays (and probably less of them) but to make them feel as much like holidays - for all of us - as possible.... I do recognise that we're lucky to be able to make this choice though.

Baby #2 turning up in 8 weeks time, so no further hols on the horizon any time soon, but I think next year will probably be the year of going away with the folks, the inlaws, or any friends with kids who might be mad / brave enough to join us...

[dulwichgirl2]

Ruthbaldock, I agree with everything you wrote.

I made the comment as it was part of my own thought process and continues to be in a number of aspects of my life. I have given up so much that i had worked for to have ch and I am not the sort of person who could leave them with a nanny. I just could not have done that. It is a visceral instinctive thing.

I am talking to a friend currently who has been married for a while and is debating having ch. Our friends all say "yes do it" but I am more of the camp that says, "think twice and be aware of the sacrifices you should be prepared to make. Once ch are here, you should be fighting your husband to run into a burning house for them so before they come, think twice about whether you can cope with your well ordeIred life being totally disrupted". I am not sure she is right for giving things up and leading a child centric life. The comment you picked out is part of my musing on this, I think.

There - a longer answer than you expected!

[dulwichgirl2]

Norfolkvillas, I travelled a great deal with my parents, as a teenager and thereafter. Nothing was luxurious but all was fascinating and certainly the adult trips totally inappropriate for children.

If I am with my children I feel that they deserve my attention and I spend all day playing with them, making sandcastles etc and, yes, I do resent it and wish sometimes I could do the adult thing of sipping coffee in a market, watching the sun rise at Abu Simbel etc.

This is what I meant by the comment. On hol., I find it especially hard to give as much as I feel I ought to, to my ch.

[Belle]

I def find holidays with another family the way to go. Somehow although the ratios may be the same, having more adults around = more chance of a bit of a break for everyone, and the kids are less bored (in my experience).

Best hotel stay we had with my first was when there was a sort of split level suite, with the sitting area down some steps where we put the travel cot. We were able to watch tv in our sleeping area and have the lights on low without disturbing him. Saying that I can in no way imagine this working with his little brother!

Also have to say i've never experienced the 'stay up late - sleep a bit later' thing - if anything my kids get up earlier after a late night. So I'd def be inclined to investigate babysitter options or stay in. My friend had a fab holiday with her one yr old in the states last year and used hotel babysitters most nights, all went fine.

Mark Warner is just SO expensive, we've never gone with this option plus my oldest is only just reaching an age where I think he'd be happy in e.g a kids club.

[Monkey]

When our baby was a year old, we went to Greece for 10 days and baby was asleep in her pushchair by 8. We went to restaurants most night and had a lovely, quiet time.

By two, this had become more difficult so on our second holiday we ate at home most nights, sometimes ordering from a nearby restaurants.very cosy.

Now at nearly three, we go on mark warne holidays, get her to eat first, and let her play with the iPad while we have a quiet dinner! Dunno about other package holidays but this is not a pb at all with mark Warner

Both options a and b sound good and you can alternate.

Your child will probably come up leaps and bonds - mine always does on holiday. So relax and enjoy!

[dulwichgirl2]

Belle, I agree that MW is dear but you can get good deals if prepared to wait and go where there is space. Then evening cr?che thing is good and means you can join other tables of adults (wow!). My husband dislikes the enforced jollity of eg quiz or dress up nights but you don't have to do those.

Where did you find the stepped suite arrangement? That sounds really useful, thanks.

[Fly]

Keep them up till 11 and all have a lie in the next day

[JBoylen]

We always get self catering with either one or two bedrooms. Honestly if the bathroom is big enough, she sleeps in there in her cot. Sounds awful but it is clean and we get to stay up past 8pm. If she would sleep in her pram while we ate, we would do that, but she will not.

Let us know where you might be thing of going (I did not read the whole thread) and maybe we can give you a link. Also, if anyone has good locations for family stays they are willing to share...bring it on!

I also agree with Ruth, it is what you make it.

We have recently been to:

http://www.flipkey.com/cancale-farmhouse-rentals/p353348/

http://www.6lamblane.com/

http://www.larotondasulmare.com/

http://www.sunnymeadcottages.co.uk/

[Ruth_Baldock]

Fly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Keep them up till 11 and all have a lie in the

> next day

I envy you! With my two it's stay up till 11, wake at 6am and be tired and grumpy all day. Whinge warp factor 10, until either me or my husband seriously considers buggering off and joining the circus/french foreign legion to escape the screeching and whining.

[snowboarder]

Ditto above...

That's why on hols we maintain 7pm bedtimes and relaxed evenings for us. Beach at 8am so not too hot!!

We had a lovely time with our then 14m old at a place called Padre Aviles - http://www.padre-aviles.com/ near Malaga. Self catering apartments with shared pool - so not as expensive as a villa. No frills such as baby clubs etc but a lovely relaxed holiday with short transfer from Malaga.

[Indiana]

We have been away a few times with our toddler - to Asia when she was almost 2, then recently to Turkey at 2 1/2. Both times we have gone self catering so she can have her own room. We tended to eat out most nights locally at restaurants all together - sometime between 6.30pm - 8pm. Then she would go to bed between 9 - 10pm and luckily sleep through to 8 - 9am every day. It meant we could have time to ourselves after she had gone to bed, but equally she loved eating out with us and being fussed over at the restaurant.

For us - they key was ensuring she had a later afternoon nap, usually 3 ish for an hour or so - that way she was on good form for the evening. In Bali, we used to go to the beach about 5ish when it was cooler, then eat about 7pm. She loved it and we found we had a relaxing holiday (we could even have siestas at 3pm too!)

Turkey is very, very toddler friendly btw - great food, restaurants and attitude to young children. Highly recommended but very hot in July/August - June/Sept probably better

Good luck!

[Otta]

I think I'd find a holiday abroad compmetely depressing with the kids. Haven here we come!