Legal advice needed re: local business/complaint

[3kids]

I am not sure if I have posted this in the correct section so apologies if not. I need some advice with regards to an incident which occurred yesterday. I enrolled my child onto a fairly well known, local, children's music keyboard class. They operate in several areas and we opted for the summer course running in the mornings. This commenced yesterday and was meant to run until the end of this week, based at Herne Hill. We booked in June and paid the ?99 fee, clearly informing the director that our child had ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). At no point were any concerns about this raised and we received confirmation that it would be fine to proceed.

Yesterday morning, my child arrived and I left her at the session. When I collected her, I was informed that she had been a little "disruptive". Further conversations with the director last night led to her stating that she did not feel the course was suitable for my daughter. This in itself is annoying enough bearing in mind my daughter had been looking forward to the classes but I would have accepted it. When I asked for a refund however she refused to give me one stating that the T&C state no refunds can be given. I understand that if I were to cancel at the last minute, I should not expect a refund but where do I stand if the company refuses to provide the service. It seems a litle unfair in my opinion.

When I complained, the director said my child can attend if I accompany her for each 2 1/2 hour session (for the rest of the week). The course was not advertised as parents being expected to attend and I would not have enrolled her had this been made clear - for a variety of reasons, but mainly because it is not good for her self esteem to be the only child in a class with a parent sitting next to her (she is 7). My daughter has attended many other holiday activities since she entered reception 3 years ago and I have never had any problems of this kind before. I am feeling a little surprised and upset to be honest and would greatly appreciate some advice on this.

Many thanks.

[mynamehere]

What if you act fast to reach a "compromise": Stay for 1/2 an hour to "settle' your daughter

ask if there is some helping job you can have so that your daughter thinks you "work there" and then she feels special

then go out for an hour

Put your head through the door quietly mid-way so that your daughter knows you're back

then off for an hour and then pick-up

On the one hand a teacher just wants to teach and isn't prepared for and doesn't have the energy for alot of behaviour management. On the other hand you want your child to integrate and learn to act in an acceptable manner thoughout her school time

Bribe her with treats for good behaviour: books she can choose from the library, something special from a local bakery, the LIDO for a swim

Put something in her pocket she can squeeze to calm down QUIETLY

The long term is that your daughter has to learn to find private tricks to control herself with your help

I hope it works and your daughter stays in the class

[KalamityKel]

what were the "terms and conditions"?

I mean was there anything along the lines of "the management reserved the rights to..."

I'm with mynamehere on this. Try to work to find a compromise. I'm sure the group concerned will want to find a solution that benefits both sides. If it didn't then it operates poors customer service indeed.

[dollydaydream]

Hello 3kids

I would try contacting Consumer Direct I think they are part of Citizen's Advice,

you can google the Tel. No.

Good Luck

Dolly

[charlottekb]

And, if nothing works. Name and Shame. Their attitude is despicable!

[Fuschia]

I just posted a long reply it is disappeared as I pressed post just as your post was moved to the lounge (god knows why)

I have found the t&c online, I think, and all it says us no refunds in any circumstances. Don't think a small claims court would deem that reasonable.

I am not sure if the Disability Disc Act will apply, but it's certainly very disappointing that they accepted your daughter without proper discussion with you regarding her needs and have now pulled the plug at such short notice. I know staffing ratios are probably pretty low, but if they wish to be inclusive they need to think about it a bit more, I think

How about attending with her today, then having a long chat with them?

The suggestions about attending with her for part of each day might be the best compromise available given the urgency of sorting it out now the course is underway

Good luck

It must be very upsetting x

[the-e-dealer]

If she has special needs then surely she is used to having someone assisting her at school? But it does sound like disibility discrimination. I sympathise. You told them about the problem. They took the money then said they couldnt handle it. They should AT LEAST return the money.

[the-e-dealer]

Can we please have the name of the Company so we can avoid getting our musically inclimed ASD Child ripped off and humiliated.

[Undisputedtruth]

Sounds like a clear case of breach of contract as they decided not to continue with the service. They were aware of your child's condition so they should have said from the outset whether it was a problem or not.

step 1

Put your complaint in writing and send by recorded delivery, making clear that they were told that your child had a condition prior to when the contract was signed. That not offering a service is unreasonable and a breach of contract.

step 2

As Fuschia said, have a long chat with them but record details on a letter and send for a written response using recorded delivery. Be as co-operative and polite as possible but maintain your position that this is a breach of contract on their part.

step 3

Start small claims procedure if step 2 fails. The letters you've sent through recorded delivery will certainly help your case. The judge will want to see evidence that (a) they were aware of your child's condition prior to entering into contract and (b) you were active in seeking an amicable solution. Be careful not to rely on oral evidence as they may lie. Keep copies of letters and recorded delivery signatures so they can't say they didn't receive their letter.

DDA does not apply in contract law but mental capacity does. However, it's completely irrelevant to your case.

Alternatively, you may want to cut your losses so to speak as court can be stressful and cost money. Charlottekb's suggestion might be better for you.

Sources of legal help are:

- insurance content policies as they may have legal helplines

- consumer direct

- http://www.blackfriars-advice.com/

[Loz]

I can sort of understand them finding your child possibly too much to deal with, but not giving a refund is well out of order. I would inform them, in writing, that you will be taking them to small claims court if you don't get a refund in seven days and then, if they still refuse, do it. I think you have a pretty good case.

If you want advice, try the Citizens Advice Bureau - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_protection_for_the_consumer_e/consumer_citizens_advice_consumer_service_e/if_you_need_more_help.htm

[the-e-dealer]

Are the Initials FM significant?

[Administrator]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I just posted a long reply it is disappeared as I

> pressed post just as your post was moved to the

> lounge (god knows why)

Because it's someone asking for advice about a company, that's in Herne Hill.

It is not an East Dulwich issue hence it was moved out of the ED Issues section.

Please do not report messages because you think they have been moved to the wrong section, reporting messages makes all the moderators jump to arms and so therefore should be used for more serious offences only.

Sorry for the interruption.

[the-e-dealer]

So it is the jumpy chimp?

[jumpinjackflash]

or Groovy Primate?

[Fuschia]

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Fuschia Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I just posted a long reply it is disappeared as

> I

> > pressed post just as your post was moved to the

> > lounge (god knows why)

>

> Because it's someone asking for advice about a

> company, that's in Herne Hill.

> It is not an East Dulwich issue hence it was moved

> out of the ED Issues section.

> Please do not report messages because you think

> they have been moved to the wrong section,

> reporting messages makes all the moderators jump

> to arms and so therefore should be used for more

> serious offences only.

>

> Sorry for the interruption.

Wouldn't the family room have been the best place?

[Otta]

Absolutely awful attitude from this organisation!

Totally agree with UDT's post (which is unsettling for me).

Please don't just forget this, this company need to learn that they can't treat SEN kids in this way, and to refuse a discount is absolutely unbelievable.

[Jeremy]

Surely if they refuse to give a refund, you are within your rights to continue to take your child to the classes. Simple.

[giggirl]

No Jeremy, you wouldn't want to take a child somewhere where s/he was not welcome.

They want their cake and eat it.

You can put anything you like in terms and conditions - there's nothing to stop you. BUT, if those Ts and Cs are tested by a court and found to be unlawful then they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Ask again, in writing, for a refund. Give them 7 days to respond and if you don't get your money back then apply to the Small Claims Court. You can open a case online and it couldn't be easier. You don't actually have to go anywhere or see anyone, you can just take care of it all in about 30 minutes online. So don't be put-off by the thought of going to court. My best guess is that if the company lets it go so far that you apply to the small claims court, then it will be brought home to them how ridiculous and unfair (indeed unlawful) their "no refunds in any circumstances" policy is.

I do agree with what mynamehere said above, but I would be more inclined to walk away with a refund.

[Undisputedtruth]

Not a good idea, Jeremy. Could be done for trespassing.

[Siduhe]

It may be worth having a look at/quoting the terms which are implied into any consumer contract for services by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 especially the section which says:

s14 Implied term about time for performance.

(1)Where, under a contract for the supply of a service by a supplier acting in the course of a business, the time for the service to be carried out is not fixed by the contract, left to be fixed in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service within a reasonable time.

Also the Unfair Terms (in consumer contracts) Regulations which apply to any term in a contract between a seller or supplier and a consumer which has not been individually negotiated and provide that any such term which is unfair is not binding on the consumer.

I can see a very reasonable argument that excluding a child from a class on the basis of a pre-disclosed condition and then refusing a refund is unfair, and/or a refusal to provide a service paid for within a reasonable time.

HTH.

[Otta]

"If your child repeatedly behaves in an

unacceptable manner during classes, we

reserve the right to terminate his/her lessons immediately WITHOUT REFUND. However,

we will do our level best to talk through and

resolve any problems before taking this step

We pride ourselves on our level of personal

service and are always willing to help"

There is no way that a child with ADHD falls under this pile of crap.

[Undisputedtruth]

@Sidhue

TBH, most contracts these days are unfairly weight against the consumer. Trying to convince a judge is tricky.

Personally, I wouldn't involved in too much technical details. A letter of complaint needs to be sent as soon as possible. Otta has made a good. So I'd have them clarify what was the actual difficulty in writing.

[3kids]

Thankyou all for your support and advice. I received an email this evening from the director offering a refund of ?79 along with a fairly condescending letter which advised me how best to prepare for any future activites I enroll my child on! I will let you all know if the cheque isn't sent...

[Loz]

I am assuming that the director read this thread? Seems unlikely to have had such a change of heart all by themselves. I suspect it will cost them more than ?79 in lost business - I worked out who the company was quite quickly.

Anyway, on receipt of the cheque, I would email them back advising them that the following book would be good preparation for them to handle any similar issues in the future.

http://www.amazon.com/Crisp-Twenty-Improve-Customer-Service/dp/1560522461

[the-e-dealer]

Yeah I did send them an email saying I was considering sending my son who has ASD to them and that I was worried about what I had heard and was it true. This is true as my son is a very musical Autistic Child.

I think an attempt followed by a sorry we are not up to it and a refund is a fairly acceptable way to behave.