Spurling road contra flow cycle route

[nunhead_man]

As the Council have put in a cycle gap in Spurling Road and not marked up the route I thought I'd mention it here.

If you are cycling or driving along East Dulwich Road toward the Goose Green roundabout be aware that a cyclist coming around the roundabout and signallintg left may be going into Sprurling Road (first exit on your left marked no entry for cars) and not second exit up Lordship Lane

[KidKruger]

I've seen the set-up but as a driver never knew that, cheers for the tip hopefully no-one will get hurt there.

[intexasatthe moment]

As a driver and cyclist I wish drivers would use their INDICATORS when using Goose Green roundabout .

Many of those travelling down Lordship Lane and heading west down East Dulwich Rd seem to rely on telepathy to convey their intended route.

[KidKruger]

Drivers should indicate all the time for everybody, whether they see other people/road users or not.

[bluecanary]

As a driver and a pedestrian I wish drivers would use their indicators full stop. Some drivers do use them but leave it until after they have started to make the turn, no point then mate, I can see what you're doing now. You're supposed to indicate your intentions, not state the blooming obvious! And breathe!!

[eddie]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Drivers should indicate all the time for

> everybody, whether they see other people/road

> users or not.

you do not have to indicate at a roundabout if you are going straight ahead

[ed_pete]

Hmm, not sure that's right:

From the Highway Code:

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout

you should not normally need to signal on approach

stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout

signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I agree, every road user should signal clearly.

And what's with the trend for cyclists pointing where they are going? NO! Stick your arm out for long enough to make your intention clear as per Highway Code.

[Nicholas]

Nunhead man, good point well made. All drivers and cyclists should signal their intentions, no exceptions. It's not just for other road users, its also for the benefit and safety of pedestrians. Regarding that roundabout, I wish the council would resite the zebra crossings as they are far too close to the roundabout and its not just one, its three! As a local driving instructor, I understand the possibility of rear end collisions at that spot due to those badly positioned crossings is high.

Nicholas Driving Academy, SE22

[Nicholas]

Eddie

Just thought i'd mention this. If you are going straight ahead at a roundabout, on a driving test the examiner likes pupils to indicate left just before they approach the turn, while being careful that they don't signal too soon otherwise drivers will feel they are possibly turning left. I dont think its always necessary to signal if you are going straight ahead, but that depends on the type of roundabout and traffic conditions. Most mini roundabouts it is not necessary to signal when going straight ahead. Hope this clafies any confusion.

Nicholas Driving Academy SE22

[intexasatthe moment]

Yes yes to reposition the zebras ( though can you imagine the upheaval and time involved ! ).

I always thought it was just me imagining them too close .

[nunhead_man]

Thanks all and I've had several near misses, that is why I posted

Also after Southwark Council to put up proper signage

[Only me!]

Agree about the close shaves now being caused by the crossings around the roundabout.

Although it seems to be the last addition, on Grove Vale, that is the biggest offender.

Several times I have turned right from East Dulwich Road into Grove Vale, stopped at the crossing to let people cross & watched in my mirrors as cars coming from Lordship Lane emergency brake to avoid hitting my car. It's a busy roundabout, that demands full attention. Watching the crossing as you enter the roundabout, judging best when to enter the roundabout & just when you are on it .... you have to stop again as the car that crossed in front of you has stopped to your left ..... while still on the roundabout! At the same moment that your eyes are looking right! Not a good mix.....

Agree it's the driver's responsibility to be vigilant etc ..... but this junction demands a very high degree of multi-tasking ..... & as always, when a car driver gets this tricky manoeuvre wrong ..... it's the pedestrian that will go to hospital.

The crossing on Grove Vale needs to be moved or removed. As where it is now doesn't seem safe.

[James Barber]

Not true.

If you look at Crash Maps website http://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search - search on East Dulwich Road - you'll see one slight crash 8/2/11 involving two vehicles. Two slights in 2010 - 28/2 & 11/4. Three slights in 2009. Two slights in 2008. One slight 2007 and five slights 2006.

Goose Green roundabout is for the amount of traffic amazingly safe. It defies traffic planners understanding and rules.

Perhaps "Only me!" you've hit the nail on the head. People ensure they are fully alert when they use it and the result is an incredibly low collission rate.

[Penguin68]

There is a lot of evidence that the more complex a task is, the more concentration it requires - there have been a number of successful trials removing e.g. road markings and signage, which forces drivers to concentrate just on their driving rather than relying on marked out lanes and broadcast 'sets of rules' so that their attention can wander - it's counter-intuitive but removing markings and street furniture which were originally intended to increase safety actually itself increases safety. Even removing separation of pedestrians and traffic can actually improve road safety!

[Only me!]

Sorry James, i didn't look at a web-site to gather my impression.

I sat in my car on the roundabout (as i do almost daily) & comfort yourself as much as you like with e-facts .... on the ground, the crossing at the entrance to Grove Vale is problematic.

[henryb]

Only me! Wrote:

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> Sorry James, i didn't look at a web-site to gather

> my impression.

> I sat in my car on the roundabout (as i do almost

> daily) & comfort yourself as much as you like with

> e-facts .... on the ground, the crossing at the

> entrance to Grove Vale is problematic.

Are you saying your anecdotal evidence is a better indicator of safety than the years of data collected by the police and approved by the National Statistics Authority and reported on by the Department for Transport?

I think the junction is good - it gets the balance right between the different road users. The multiple crossings force drivers to slow and concentrate on what they are doing and that is probably why its safety record is so good.

[Only me!]

I'm saying that the reality on the ground from my experience, is that the Crossing at the entrance to Grove Vale is positioned badly. For those cars leaving the roundabout.

Adding complication & therefore risk, to an already complicated road junction.

Thats all.

To say my evidence is "anecdotal" may be correct, but it is also a fact.

I have had at least two near misses where I have stopped for pedestrians & the cars behind me, joining from Lordship Lane, have struggled, with screeching tyres & shocked wide eyed glances, to avoid running into the back of my car.

I cannot back it up with a web survey, nor with a bank of sworn independent witnesses who can verify the "close shave" ...... that would almost make it onto the NSA web site.

Just saying ..... if it's intention was to make the roundabout less safe? .... then .... from my perspective, it has worked.

[James Barber]

Hi Only Me!,

You may be correct in your impression. But since adding the final zebra crossing to the other two collissions over time have gone down.

what did surprise me on Crash Maps was that the junction of Friern Road with Goodrich should be a problem.

[henryb]

> I cannot back it up with a web survey,

The data comes from the police who record every incident they are called to and have been for years. Things may appear to be dangerous but actually not be. What I notice is people driving very carefully around it.

[Only me!]

Waving one's hand in front of someones face & saying in your best Jedi voice:

"This is not the dangerous junction you are looking for! The web says so..." is probably not going to work .....

But Hey Ho ... I gave it a shot.

I really really hope it's not serious when the inevitable happens.

[James Barber]

I received the attached proposed changes to Spurling Road.

My response was and I was having a bad day!

"This is such a dismal shame.

Officers delivered a cycle contraflow there only 3 years ago. So I'm deeply saddened to see that either the money then was wasted by officers or would be now.

Which is it and why?

If you're making the area more permeable for cyclists - which I'm keen on - then can you please add a cycle contraflow to Crawthew Grove between Lordship Lane and Spurling Road?

Ideally the current island is fit for purpose. That the money saved by not rearranging kerb stones could be spent adding Crawthew Grove.

"

What do people living there think?

[Brian Tee]

Anyone on the road, on or in whatever vehicle, should be as aware as possible of all other road users around them. If a cyclist is on the roundabout at Goose Green, they have right of way over any vehicle arriving at the roundabout from their left. I use this roundabout on a very regular basis, and do see some idiot drivers and cyclists who are simply not paying enough attention to what's going on around them.

Cyclists are their own greatest enemy if they assume they are more visible or have somehow a right of way through traffic lights etc. that other road users do not. These people deserve every accident that they are involved in. I was a victim of a major head trauma in central London because of a careless motorist while I was cycling with total care and attention, so have first hand knowledge of just how vulnerable you are on a bike, which taught me through massive pain and prolonged recovery that you should not 'take chances' on a push bike.

Drivers should be more alert to cyclists, and cyclists should be as visible as they can on the road, and not jump lights, or ride down footpaths, or do anything other than stick to the road and follow the rules of the road. It's the only safe way - and it's not that safe even if you are a slave to the Highway Code.

[maria]

When we received the plans for this from the council they were supposed to put some road markings and signs in but it has always just looked like a half completed job. As I live on the corner of Spurling and Crawthew I am aware how many near misses there are and whilst a cyclist, I do understand why car drivers are surprised to see a bike coming down a one way street 'the wrong way'.

[Only me!]

Indeed.

It is for sure a surprise to see a bike coming towards you down a one way street.

As you drive down Spurling Rd from Crawthrew there is nothing to inform you that it is a two way street.

In fact don't the arrows at the junction seem to indicate that it is a one way street? (I will look again this eve)

Is there such a thing as a sign to identify a one way street but with Bikes allowed to travel both ways?

With the parking on both sides road markings probably won't help .... so what to do?