The East London Line extension

[Undisputedtruth]

Medley Wrote:

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> Once Crossrail's in the game will change again of

> course, but that's not until 2019.

>

Indeed Crossrail will give many opportunities.

But Bic Basher's suggestion to use Whitechapel for Crossrail in 2019 actually involves a longer journey. It'll be far quicker to use the Thameslink trains to Farringdon and then change on to Crossrail to Paddington.

[Bic Basher]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> Medley Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Once Crossrail's in the game will change again

> of

> > course, but that's not until 2019.

> >

>

> Indeed Crossrail will give many opportunities.

>

> But Bic Basher's suggestion to use Whitechapel for

> Crossrail in 2019 actually involves a longer

> journey. It'll be far quicker to use the

> Thameslink trains to Farringdon and then change on

> to Crossrail to Paddington.

That's if DH and PR have Thameslink trains at the expense of the Wimbledon Loop.

[Undisputedtruth]

I don't know where you get the idea about DH & PR having Thameslink trains at the expense of the Wimbledon loop. Thameslink trains already serves DH & PR.

Still, it will be quicker to use Denmark Hill to Elephant and Castle (6 mins) then use the Bakerloo line to Paddington (19 mins). I've very much doubt if a combined ELL and Crossrail is a quicker route in the future. DH to Whitechapel using ELL (estimated time 20 mins) and crossrail to Paddington (12 mins).

[Bic Basher]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> I don't know where you get the idea about DH & PR

> having Thameslink trains at the expense of the

> Wimbledon loop. Thameslink trains already serves

> DH & PR.

Indeed, however it's not clear if the new franchise will have either through services on the core from Sevenoaks which serve PR and DH or the Wimbledon Loop. The latter is more likely to lose it's through service.

[Undisputedtruth]

Network Rail opposes the idea of Wimbledon loop trains running through Thameslink tunnel as they would affect network's reliablility. Also, Wimbledon loop trains cannot run 12 train carriages, a key feature of Thameslink.

ETA: The recent Thameslink consultation gives Wimbledon loop trains supporters a last ditch effort to save their direct through link services. It remains to be seen whether they would be successful.

For those who have not yet commented on the Thameslink consultation, the deadline is now extended to 14 September.

[TB2]

There are 3 trains per day Monday to Saturday and 2 on Sundays from Clapham Junction to Bath. Takes 2hours 20minutes but is much cheaper than going via Paddington if you ask for a 'via Salisbury' ticket. Even cheaper if you have a Goldcard or Network Card if you split your tickets and buy Denmark Hill - Salisbury, and Salisbury - Bath.

Alternatively if you don't mind also changing at Salisbury the SWT trains run hourly Clapham Junction to Salisbury, with FGW connecting hourly Salisbury to Bath.

The ELL extension to Clapham Junction makes it a lot easier to get from Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill to all sorts of exotic destinations ... Exeter, Southampton, Portsmouth, Reading, Milton Keynes, Watford etc.

[Bic Basher]

TB2 Wrote:

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>

> The ELL extension to Clapham Junction makes it a

> lot easier to get from Peckham Rye and Denmark

> Hill to all sorts of exotic destinations ...

> Exeter, Southampton, Portsmouth, Reading, Milton

> Keynes, Watford etc.

And gives back connections lost to Peckham Rye customers which were lost when the East Croydon trains were axed to places such as Brighton, Eastbourne, Hastings etc without the need to change at Victoria.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Although I couldn't find the new timetable online anywhere, if you put in a date after 8 dec on tfl journey planner you can see what the running pattern is going to be for the new line. 4 trains an hour peak. 13 - 16 mins to clapham junction.

Edited to say "that's from Denmark hill BTW"

[Bic Basher]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Although I couldn't find the new timetable online

> anywhere, if you put in a date after 8 dec on tfl

> journey planner you can see what the running

> pattern is going to be for the new line. 4 trains

> an hour peak. 13 - 16 mins to clapham junction.

>

> Edited to say "that's from Denmark hill BTW"

There's a lot of padding in the time between Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction, I can't see it taking as long as timetabled. This is to protect London Overground from paying delay fines.

[MarkE]

Bic Basher Wrote:

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> There's a lot of padding in the time between

> Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction, I can't see

> it taking as long as timetabled. This is to

> protect London Overground from paying delay fines.

Sounds very definite, or is this actually speculation? Could it be, for instance, that it deliberately includes padding in order to schedule arrival at a vacant CJ platform? Else, why wouldn't that padding be spaced out across the route?

[Medley]

Because the delay regime only counts delays at final destinations, not en route.

[the-e-dealer]

What f**wit at the DOT devised the performance targets?

[Medley]

There are lots of fudges in the system - delays only count if they're more than 5 mins for short distances, 10 mins for long etc. etc.

The usual nonsense money go round between govt (in the form of either DfT or Network Rail) and the companies, with all sides complicit.

Still, at least punctuality and reliability are 'up'!

[the-e-dealer]

Dont get me started! Even if the trains don't stop at any stations on the way and therefore leave passengers stranded they can get 100% reliability and punctuality. they should be measuring passengers arriving on time not trains!

[Medley]

Reminds me of the story of a Derbyshire bus timetable in the '70s which allowed no time for picking up or dropping off passengers.

[the-e-dealer]

Yeah but this is the WHOLE rail network!

[Bic Basher]

It's also a tactic to stop passengers applying for delay repay compensation for being 'delayed'

[Medley]

Sort of - but the threshold there is 30 mins. This is more about keeping the public performance measure in good shape.

[Medley]

Meant to add - the detriment is in the padded timetables and so longer journeys that passengers get, although there is a reliability tradeoff - some leeway does help trains arrive on time thus meaning you've got more certainty but possibly a slower train.

It does all seem a bit depressing over long distances though - there are loads more trains from London to Bristol, Leeds etc than there used to be, but they're almost all substantially slower than the fastest trains of the '70s or '80s.

[cyclinginstructor]

What would be really useful is a through train to reading, to link up with fast trains to bristol and bath.

[the-e-dealer]

No What would really be useful would be an East Dulwich to Charing Cross Direct Link.

[Medley]

Agree about Reading. Would be great in general if there could be a fast outer orbital type service building on existing hubs such as Clapham Junction and East Croydon but with sensible inter-connections from stations like ED to those places.

[Bic Basher]

Medley Wrote:

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> Agree about Reading. Would be great in general if

> there could be a fast outer orbital type service

> building on existing hubs such as Clapham

> Junction and East Croydon but with sensible

> inter-connections from stations like ED to those

> places.

The ELL does open up those links lost when the direct East Croydon services were lost by changing at Clapham Junction, although you'll have to use Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill depending on which is closest.

If you're going to Reading, it may be quicker to use the tube to Paddington and going that way instead of the slower SWT service.

[Medley]

That's the point though, that the choice is between fast but from central London vs. slow but from outer London.

[zork]

9th of December

http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2012/09/east-london-line-extension-to-clapham-opens-in-december/