EU Trade Talks Thread

[diable rouge]

Whatever it is it doesn't include forecasting when you're going to get sacked...

[uncleglen]

'30% of French fisherman rely on fishing in British waters' - not exactly reflected in the fear-mongering headline...OR the statement that the UK will find it hard to make a deal- the UK doesn't need a deal.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/16/brexit-britain-and-eu-will-rip-each-other-apart-in-trade-talks

[uncleglen]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> EU spending tens of millions of euros a year to

> promote meat eating

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/1

> 4/eu-spending-tens-of-millions-of-euros-a-year-to-

> promote-meat-eating

>

> Well done EU. Glad to see you?re spending MY money

> on something I agree with.

Yes- that's ok now we have bowel cancer screening....

Let's get lung cancer screening and start smoking again...

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> '30% of French fisherman rely on fishing in

> British waters' - not exactly reflected in the

> fear-mongering headline...OR the statement that

> the UK will find it hard to make a deal- the UK

> doesn't need a deal.....

> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/16/b

> rexit-britain-and-eu-will-rip-each-other-apart-in-

> trade-talks

you really think that (less than) 30% of French fisherman have a huge influence on 27 countries' trade arrangements?

[stepdown]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It has always been the case that EU states have to

> erect a border against non EU states. Don?t ask me

> under what EU Law or directive because I?ve never

> read them nor never will.

>

> An independent Scotland within the EU would need

> to erect such a border that would make Hadrian?s

> wall look like a flimsy picket fence.

You're wrong. The reality is that the nature of the border depends on how aligned and cooperative the two sides are willing to be, there is no need to erect walls. As such, even if you were willing to read, there's no law to or directive to point you to as it doesn't exist.

However the BBC has a nice little article about how things work between the EU and Norway:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41412561

[JohnL]

Switzerland is not in the EU but is in the Schengen area - It's in EFTA.

[keano77]

I?m always happy to be corrected stepdown but your answer doesn?t quite cut the mustard.

There?s a reason the EU spent 3 1/2 years blackmailing the U.K. in the divorce talks - it was the UK?s Achilles heel and if the U.K. didn?t play ball Ireland (NB not the U.K.) would need to introduce a border to protect the integrity of the Single Market and all problems that would flow from it.

It was well played by the EU, managing to place the onus onto the U.K.

[stepdown]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Switzerland is not in the EU but is in the

> Schengen area - It's in EFTA.

True, but their border still looks "harder" to me:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?m always happy to be corrected stepdown but your

> answer doesn?t quite cut the mustard.

So, you stand by your assertions that "EU states have to erect a border against non EU states" and an "independent Scotland within the EU would need to erect such a border that would make Hadrian?s wall look like a flimsy picket fence" despite the example of Norway? That was the point I was responding to.

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There?s a reason the EU spent 3 1/2 years

> blackmailing the U.K. in the divorce talks - it

> was the UK?s Achilles heel and if the U.K. didn?t

> play ball Ireland (NB not the U.K.) would need to

> introduce a border to protect the integrity of the

> Single Market and all problems that would flow

> from it.

>

> It was well played by the EU, managing to place

> the onus onto the U.K.

The Good Friday Agreement was not the EU's doing, and is where the border complications arose from. The UK's position was contradictory, there was no "blackmailing" as you so emotionally put it.

[stepdown]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the EU spent 3 1/2 years blackmailing the U.K.

> in the divorce talks

It was not until 29 March 2017 that the UK invoked Article 50. The withdrawal agreement was published on 14 November 2018. The negotiations lasted less than 1 3/4 years.

Even if we were to accept your unfair characterisation of the negotiations, more than half that time was the UK's representatives arguing amongst themselves.

[keano77]

I don?t disagree with everything you say stepdown but I?ll do you the courtesy of providing the following rather than just a link on its own

?... LEVEL PLAYING FIELD

Preserving a ?level playing field? of customs and regulations after Brexit is crucial to the EU as whatever enters Ireland from Britain has free access to the rest of the bloc?s single market.

Brussels needs to ensure that such products would not undermine agreed common standards, or compete by price dumping.

Without an agreement with Britain, it would insist on checks on the border - which might be a threat to a Northern Ireland peace settlement that depends to some extent on unimpeded north-south movement.

Alternatively, the EU could run checks between Ireland and continental Europe, but that would damage Dublin?s economic interests and subordinate them to non-member Britain?s...?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-backstop-explainer/explainer-a-guide-to-the-brexit-backstop-and-why-theres-a-uk-eu-standoff-idUSKCN1VA1ES

...it would insist on checks on the border... ie the EU would insist.

I realise this is a secondary source but a very reputable one you?ll agree.

[JohnL]

stepdown Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Switzerland is not in the EU but is in the

> > Schengen area - It's in EFTA.

>

> True, but their border still looks "harder" to

> me:

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594

>

>

Yes it seems to be so for road traffic.

It was just another day for Darren Grimes however :)

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexiteer-darren-grimes-on-schengen-1-5958282

and the replies that prove the rule of "be kind unless it's grimes"

Jon Worth tweeted: ?They?re both in Schengen you dim witted imbecile. If you had been driving a truck it?d have been different.?

[Sephiroth]

"...it would insist on checks on the border... ie the EU would insist."

which was why remainers said all along and were called scaremongerers. You wanted to leave a perfectly stable union TO TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR BORDERS!!, where this was always going to happen and you did it anyway

Now you complain it's only the EU insisting as if you don't care about borders -- breathtaking

[diable rouge]

Blamers gotta blame...

[stepdown]

I appreciate your efforts to copy and paste, but you've deliberately edited out the relevant information. That would only be the case if there wasn't an agreement, and as I said, what the border looks like depends on the agreement reached.

Reuters Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Without an agreement with Britain, it would insist

> on checks on the border

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...it would insist on checks on the border... ie

> the EU would insist.

You're not actually responding to any of the points raised or defending any of your own. You're just spinning one section of an article from August last year explaining the border situation before Boris Johnson dropped the red line of "no border on the island of Ireland".

[pk]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Without an agreement with Britain, it would insist

> on checks on the border - which might be a threat

> to a Northern Ireland peace settlement that

> depends to some extent on unimpeded north-south

> movement.

>

> Alternatively, the EU could run checks between

> Ireland and continental Europe, but that would

> damage Dublin?s economic interests and subordinate

> them to non-member Britain?s...?

>

>

> ...it would insist on checks on the border... ie

> the EU would insist.

>

so obviously in the absence of a free trade agreement there'd have to be checks on the border?

the EU would obviously insist on checks on goods coming into their region - but you think that we shouldn't have similar checks on stuff coming to the UK in the event of no deal? really?

[JohnL]

Cummings and the press fit well together - maybe they should just report what he does every day.

https://news.sky.com/video/cummings-refuses-to-comment-on-sabisky-11936982

[keano77]

Posted by Sephiroth Today, 01:22PM

"...it would insist on checks on the border... ie the EU would insist."

...which was why remainers said all along and were called scaremongerers...

Posted by stepdown Today, 01:30PM

...That would only be the case if there wasn't an agreement...

Posted by pk Today, 01:36PM

...the EU would obviously insist on checks on goods coming into their region -

Thank you, you?ve proved my point. The nasty EU would impose border checks jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement to make sure their euros keep coming into the Brussels? coffers unless the U.K. accepts its rules and becomes a vassal state.

But this is all old territory. Exciting times lie ahead when the talks commence.

[stepdown]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you, you?ve proved my point.

You haven't made a point, you're just spouting falsehoods and talking points. Your use of "vassal state" makes it painfully transparent that you're just regurgitating the words of others, pitiful really.

[keano77]

It?s all about money stepdown, something Remainers appear to be unable to grasp.

There?s a reason ex World Bank and new ECB President Christine Lagarde is instigating a root and branch review of the bank?s monetary policy.

The reason the EU imposes border checkpoints is to collect taxes/tariffs because it?s a protectionist market.

[pk]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Thank you, you?ve proved my point. The nasty EU

> would impose border checks

and your idea is that we let people bring whatever they want in without any border checks and without any free trade agreement? cause we're 'nice' (and stupid?)

that isn't how these things work - borders aren't a new thing

I guess that the point proved is that you don't know what you're talking about

[stepdown]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It?s all about money stepdown, something Remainers

> appear to be unable to grasp.

You can't even stay on-message between posts, last time round money was only an issue "unless the U.K. accepts its rules". So what is it all about, regulations or revenue?

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There?s a reason ex World Bank and new ECB

> President Christine Lagarde is instigating a root

> and branch review of the bank?s monetary policy.

Yes, the reason is to decide how they calculate their inflation target which was last updated in 2003:

https://www.ft.com/content/c3d72f52-1834-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The reason the EU imposes border checkpoints is to

> collect taxes/tariffs because it?s a protectionist

> market.

No, "protectionist" means tariffs to protect local industry from foreign competition, the clue is in the name. The aim is to reduce domestic consumption of foreign imports, not to generate revenue.

[keano77]

How things work today pk might not be how they work tomorrow. It?s called change or adaption or evolution etc

The EU realises it will need to adapt or die but so far only Macron seems to be suggesting change by advocating greater integration.

[keano77]

?... You can't even stay on-message between posts...?

You?ve fallen into the trap that our Brexit negotiators did stepdown by accepting the EU version of what the message is.

The majority of the British people freed you from such thinking in the referendum. Wipe the sleep out of your eyes stepdown and open your mind.

Dominic Cummings is looking for radical thinkers.

[keano77]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There?s a reason ex World Bank and new ECB

> President Christine Lagarde is instigating a root

> and branch review of the bank?s monetary policy.

Yes, the reason is to decide how they calculate their inflation target which was last updated in 2003:

[www.ft.com]

Err, hello - ?10 Billion hole in annual contributions now the U.K. has thrown off the shakles

[keano77]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There?s a reason ex World Bank and new ECB

> President Christine Lagarde is instigating a root

> and branch review of the bank?s monetary policy.

Yes, the reason is to decide how they calculate their inflation target which was last updated in 2003:

[www.ft.com]

Err, hello - ?10 Billion hole in annual contributions now the U.K. has thrown off the shackles