Jump to content

EU Trade Talks Thread

keano77

By keano77
in The Lounge

 Share

Recommended Posts

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

Everyone outside Labour Party laughed at them when they elected Corbyn leader


Did they want to hear that? Nope. Just congratulated themselves on revolution to come. ?You lost centrists?


Etc


If I was a leaver I would pay more attention to what other countries are saying and not cherry picking

TheCat

TheCat

Posted
Posted

Well, Happy New Year All.


f nothing else, just as many leavers blamed anything bad on the EU for many years, at least remainers can now blame anything bad that happens on the fact that we have now left.


For, leavers they can claim positive things(or at least any lack of catastrophe) becuase of brexit, without being told 'we haven't left yet'.


We watch and wait....till someone says 'I told you so'.....

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

These European commentators seem to see trust as having been lost


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/31/the-view-from-europe-uk-taken-over-by-gamblers-liars-clowns-and-their-cheerleaders


Although that could be said to be Boris and his friends in the media rather than Brexit.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

This is rather ominous


?Populists depend on enemies, real or imagined, to legitimise their actions and deflect from their own shortcomings,? she said. If the EU has been the ?enemy abroad? since 2016, it will steadily be replaced by ?enemies within?: MPs, civil servants, judges, lawyers, experts, the BBC.


?Individuals and institutions who dare to limit the power of the executive, even if it is just by asking questions, are at constant risk of being denounced as ?activists?? by the Johnson government, Von Bismarck said.

TheCat

TheCat

Posted
Posted

As I said yesterday...the argument using others similar collective opinions isn't really an argument. Seph, you assure us in cafes, bars and bus-stops stops across the EU....they think the UK leaving is a bad idea. Well good for them, they may well be right, but these views don't really means as much as it seems you would like them to.


Let's remember 30 years ago when the idea of the single currency was floated, that Thatcher was alone amongst EU leaders in being against the idea. Similarly 10 years later when the Euro started trading..the UK opted out. Well....I think you'd now find more than a few people who agree the single currency has been a total disaster...good thing Thatcher and co didn't worry too much about what they were saying in the content cafes back then hey?

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

", but these views don't really means as much as it seems you would like them to"


maybe. maybe not. But that's different from "people aren't laughing at Brexit and the Brits"


The Euro is more mixed - but kind of moot. People have been living with it for years and it hasn't made them wish they weren't part of the EU. Whereas the country that didn't join the Euro still wasn't happy (spoiler: and never will be)

Blah Blah

Blah Blah

Posted
Posted

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is rather ominous

>

> ?Populists depend on enemies, real or imagined, to legitimise their actions and deflect from their

> own shortcomings,? she said. If the EU has been the ?enemy abroad? since 2016, it will steadily be

> replaced by ?enemies within?: MPs, civil servants, judges, lawyers, experts, the BBC.

>

> ?Individuals and institutions who dare to limit the power of the executive, even if it is just by

> asking questions, are at constant risk of being denounced as ?activists?? by the Johnson

> government, Von Bismarck said.


This is a really important point. A bill is already being drawn up to limit the remit of the Supreme Court, especially when it comes to actions taken by the government. That is going to be an undermining of Parliamentary sovereignty in itself. A deliberate move to consolidate the power of the executive in a way that can not be challenged, even by the law. Getting Brexit done was only the first step on a road that is being shaped by the more extreme fringes of the Tory Party, and they are more UKIP than conservative.

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

Decent article from a Leaver I've long had a problem with here


(I'm seeing more of this sort of thing btw , but HAHA DEMOCRACY!!!!, there is no mechanism for them to change their vote


The hill I will die on is that this was a referendum of such magnitudal change that it required a confirmatory referendum based on the deal to be considered in any way democratic - and anyone who shouts down problems by just screaming "democracy" is naive at best and downright malicious at worst)



https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/voices/brexit-vote-leave-trade-deal-b1780862.html

TheCat

TheCat

Posted
Posted

So this is the third anti-brexit opinion piece you've linked to in the past few days. None of these seem to reference anything other than personal opinion.


I guess my question is, what new evidence or data has been apparent in the past few days to suggest these anti-brexit opinions are anything new compared to what you and other remainers have been saying for the past 4.5years? - each of these articles is basically just someone else saying 'brexit is bad' and people who support brexit are also bad/misguided...it might make remainers such as yourself cheer in solidarity, but do they really add to the discourse?


As has been said by people on both sides of the fence in recent days, how things progress as we move forward now will be the true litmus test.


It's only been 2 days....So it's far too early to make any new assessment. But if you really had to be forced to on 2 days of evidence....There's been no chaos at the ports, the VAT has been removed from sanitary products, electric pulse fishing in British waters has been banned (at least 6 months ahead of the EU)......yes, these are small things in the grand context, and other impacts are yet to be felt...but they are clear (dare I say it) TANGIBLE benefits....


But if you require constant reassurance from others that 'brexit is bad' to get through the day, then carry on....

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

I don?t need reassurances


It objectively is dumb


But as well as the opinion pieces I?m also referencing leavers who have changed their mind and regret it


Because as soon as you open your mind to objectivity, it?s self-apparent


I?m just giving as many pointers as I can.


Because as I?ve said before, persisting with this until the last possible moment only to shrug and say ?that didn?t work? is woefully insufficient. I?m just trying to speed the process along

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

It?s only been 2 days and we already have Brandon Lewis saying there is no border in the Irish see and Duncan smith talking about conquering the world again. But sure - these are the smart guys


I know you don?t have the highest respect for the government - but at some point you are going to have to link their ineptitude with their enthusiasm for Brexit. That is the only reason they are there. The smart tories got ditched/bailed from the madness

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

Also Brandon Lewis today


? The unique position that Northern Ireland business now have, as an integral part of UK market & able to trade with EU, opens huge opportunity for inward investment, business & job growth. Globally unique opportunity.



Sounds great. Maybe rest of U.K. should have this amazing opportunity eh?

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It?s only been 2 days and we already have Brandon

> Lewis saying there is no border in the Irish see

> and Duncan smith talking about conquering the

> world again. But sure - these are the smart guys


IDS said we should all become Buccaneers - So I'm off to get some Pieces of Eight and a Parrot.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

Farage meanwhile is having a spat with the Chinese


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/brexit-party-leader-christmas-twitter-spat-china-daily-6861676


It's interesting that the Chinese should be taking note of Farage - maybe they see him as someone they should keep tabs on.

malumbu

malumbu

Posted
Posted

I thought that the Green Leavers may have come to their senses. Leaving the EU was not going to create a green utopia where we were going to overnight move to a sustainable life style, slash our carbon footprint, reverse species and biodiversity decline etc etc.


But obviously not: http://groupspaces.com/GreenLeaves2


Would like some views on this position as I have lost friends over it.

diable rouge

diable rouge

Posted
Posted

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> It's only been 2 days....So it's far too early to

> make any new assessment. But if you really had to

> be forced to on 2 days of evidence....There's been

> no chaos at the ports, the VAT has been removed

> from sanitary products, electric pulse fishing in

> British waters has been banned (at least 6 months

> ahead of the EU)......yes, these are small things

> in the grand context, and other impacts are yet to

> be felt...but they are clear (dare I say it)

> TANGIBLE benefits....


I think the 'chaos' predictions were more to do with No Deal. Eurotunnel, Port of Dover and Road Haulage Association have gone on record saying ports would be empty on Brexit day and at least the week beyond due to Brexit stockpiling. Mid-Jan is when they foresee "invisible chaos" which I presume means all the additional red tape. Either way, the locals are revolting... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/01/residents-furious-brexit-lorry-park-kent-village


Re. 'Tampon Tax': putting aside that EU member Ireland doesn't levy tax on tampons, it could've been scrapped whilst we were still in the EU when it was proposed as a Labour amendment in the 2015 Finance Bill, but was voted down by such luminaries as Bernard Jenkin and Steve Baker. It was still an issue right up to the referendum when Cameron was trying to renegotiate our deal...


EqqRls9WMAAdZxU?format=jpg&name=small


Re. Pulse fishing: By 6 months I assume you're referring to the EU final implementation date for the ban.

France and Belgium have already implemented the ban, nothing stopped the UK doing likewise.


I think what we've seen with both these 'benefits' is the UK deliberately sitting on them so they could be seen as a benefit of Brexit, tangible or otherwise...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

East Dulwich Forum

Established in 2006, we are an online community discussion forum for people who live, work in and visit SE22.

Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...