EU Trade Talks Thread

[malumbu]

Actually the General Election was akin to a referendum except there were two questions.

Would you like a hard Brexit and not have Corbyn as Prime Minister. A resounding yes. Game over really......

So deal or no deal?? I'm sorry I haven't a clue. I suppose it depends on whether we play our cards right. And we could call my bluff. But get this wrong and we could be losing our family fortunes. You don't have to be a master mind to work out that we are at the tipping point. Although at times it appears pointless. And we are the weakest link.

Ignore this nonsense and views on the first question. The obvious one is that both sides will compromise late on, and claim victory. I reckon with or without Cummings this will have been the case. And Gove will still avoid answering the question.

Until all the nonsense starts at the ports and Irish border. It's a mad mad world.

[diable rouge]

Chickens coming home to roost update:

Loving how the Mail is trying to frame this, no doubt aware that some of its middle class readership will be affected.

The rules aren't 'new', they are existing rules that apply to all non-EU countries. This is exactly what was said before the referendum and since, yet English exceptionalism carried on sticking its head in the sand. Wait till they find out about the requirements needed for their precious pooches to travel with them...

[JohnL]

90 days is the rule - that's what all third party citizens are allowed.

Basically this headline says "We are special"

[malumbu]

DR, you will find the Express has much better headlines. It's pretty barmy but seems to vary from well done Boris for not giving in, to the evil empire that wants to defeat us plucky Brits. Good old fashioned Churchillian.

This is from a limited sample when I am queuing at the self service at Lidl in Sydenham. Not sure where the papers are stacked at the Peckham store.

[diable rouge]

It also doesn't apply to expats* as it states, instead it's for visitors, holiday makers, and 2nd home owners who's main residence is in the UK. Basically they're griping about not being able to take more than 3 months holiday in a 6 month period, poor wee lambs. Oh, and someone better tell them not to travel if their passport has less than a 6 month expiry date, and to be prepared to wait in those long 'non-EU passport' queues in order to get their passport stamped. Other than that, bon voyage!...

*That'll be immigrants to all of you not blessed to be British

[diable rouge]

The Express has long since stopped being a newspaper, nothing more than a propaganda sheet.

'EU on the brink', rinse and repeat...

[malumbu]

Best post of the day!

[JohnL]

I like to think Reach PLC took too seriously the statement below and made the Express as brexity and crazy as possible.

"the CMA said it believes the merger does not raise competition concerns in any of the issues for which it had been referred, including that the two sides "not close competitors, as they target different demographic groups and differ in content and tone".

https://www.sharecast.com/news/small-caps-news/trinity-mirror-given-ofcom-green-light-for-express-and-star-takeover--3357257.html

[TheCat]

For the 'tell me just ONE benefit of Brexit' crowd....

How about approval of a vaccine for Covid probably at least a month before the EU?

Yes the govt have made many many mistakes But perhaps we can be pleased at one decision that they have got right.

I await the retraction of the attacks on govt from the Lib Dems in June when the UK didn't join the EU vaccine programme....https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/uk-poised-to-shun-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-scheme#:~:text=The%20UK's%20decision%20not%20to,be%20participating%20in%20the%20scheme.

[diable rouge]

Nothing to do with Brexit...

[wordsworth]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Nothing to do with Brexit...

> https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/13341062

> 85890019330

Quite.

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Nothing to do with Brexit...

> https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/13341062

> 85890019330

It comes across as we are just a little bit determined to show we are different - maybe they asked us and Boris put up two fingers.

"Spahn said Germany wanted all European countries to be able to roll out the vaccine at the same time. ?We have member states, including Germany, who could have issued such an emergency authorisation if we?d wanted to,? he said. ?But we decided against this and what we opted for was a common European approach to move forward together.?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/02/uk-put-speed-before-public-confidence-in-vaccine-says-eu-agency

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Nothing to do with Brexit...

> https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/13341062

> 85890019330

I was waiting for this response. It's 100 percent about brexit. As you state....The mechanism is available through the EMA for any country to do this. But guess what?...none of them have...because no-one wants to do it out of step with the other EU nations, becuase of political pressure within the EU. But...Becuase of the fact that we will be out from the EMA jurisdiction in 1 month, we not subject to that same political pressure, and are willing to utilise this avenue where others are not. So, it's all about brexit.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-brexit-lead-to-the-uk-s-vaccine-success-

[Sephiroth]

The tiniest sliver of goodwill, benefit of doubt, some scintilla that The Cat knows what they speak of

Pooooof....

[diable rouge]

''Political pressure''

Would that be the same political pressure that meant (off the top of my head):

The UK received a substantial rebate?

The UK didn't have to adopt the Euro?

The UK didn't have to be a part of Schengen?

The EU would prefer a 'vaccine bloc' but it hasn't stopped Hungary from ordering a Russian vaccine...

Under a 2001 directive, member countries may temporarily authorize the distribution of an unauthorized medicinal product "in response to the suspected or confirmed spread of pathogenic agents, toxins, chemical agents or nuclear radiation, any of which could cause harm.

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The tiniest sliver of goodwill, benefit of doubt,

> some scintilla that The Cat knows what they speak

> of

>

> Pooooof....

Probably the most deliciously ironic post of the year.....that's some gong....

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ''Political pressure''

>

> Would that be the same political pressure that

> meant (off the top of my head):

>

> The UK received a substantial rebate?

> The UK didn't have to adopt the Euro?

> The UK didn't have to be a part of Schengen?

>

> The EU would prefer a 'vaccine bloc' but it hasn't

> stopped Hungary from ordering a Russian vaccine...

>

>

> Under a 2001 directive, member countries may

> temporarily authorize the distribution of an

> unauthorized medicinal product "in response to the

> suspected or confirmed spread of pathogenic

> agents, toxins, chemical agents or nuclear

> radiation, any of which could cause harm.

Rule number 1 of being a remainer on the EDF.....never, ever admit there may be the finest thread of truth to anything remotely positive said about brexit....

[diable rouge]

Boris Johnson not mentioning this so called 'Brexit benefit' at yesterday's early evening presser, says it all really. After all, this is the man who would tubthump and grandstand at every opportunity, witness him wanting to put the Union Jack on AstraZeneca's vaccine phials...

[JohnL]

I notice all the other orders for vaccines ordered an initial order and an option to buy further orders

UK only had an initial order.

[Blah Blah]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rule number 1 of being a remainer on the

> EDF.....never, ever admit there may be the finest

> thread of truth to anything remotely positive said

> about brexit....

Rule number 2...... never ever let a Brexiter get away with mistruths, especially when they double down.

FACT There was no requirement for EU member states to agree a unified moment for rolling out a vaccine. FACT EU member states are free to make that decision for themselves if they want to. FACT Mogg, Dorries and Hancock all lied when they implied that if we had not left the EU we would still be waiting for permission to roll out the vaccine.

[TheCat]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Rule number 1 of being a remainer on the

> > EDF.....never, ever admit there may be the

> finest

> > thread of truth to anything remotely positive

> said

> > about brexit....

>

> Rule number 2...... never ever let a Brexiter get

> away with mistruths, especially when they double

> down.

>

> FACT There was no requirement for EU member states

> to agree a unified moment for rolling out a

> vaccine. FACT EU member states are free to make

> that decision for themselves if they want to. FACT

> Mogg, Dorries and Hancock all lied when they

> implied that if we had not left the EU we would

> still be waiting for permission to roll out the

> vaccine.

FACT - I totally agree with your first two FACTS, and (FACT) said as much above. I've never said that brexit makes it legally possible where it wasnt before - quite the opposite inFACT. If you actually read what I've written instead of reacting indignantly to what you ASSUME i mean based on what some politicans have said, you'll see i've talked about Brexit making it politically palatable to make the decision you refer to. Hence Brexit is responsible on that basis - I seriously question whether we would be willing to break with the EMA/EU sychronised approval if there was no Brexit (that is an opinion, rather than a fact, but I think we are all still allowed those, even if they differ from your own)

I guess rule number three is to try and misrepresent and beltittle any views which run counter to your narrative.

[Effra]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rule number 2...... never ever let a Brexiter get

> away with mistruths, especially when they double

> down.

>

> FACT There was no requirement for EU member states

> to agree a unified moment for rolling out a

> vaccine. FACT EU member states are free to make

> that decision for themselves if they want to. FACT

> Mogg, Dorries and Hancock all lied when they

> implied that if we had not left the EU we would

> still be waiting for permission to roll out the

> vaccine.

Sorry Blah Blah, but your take on this does not meet your usual standards of objectivity.

The UK opted out of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) to rid itself of the lethargic bureaucracy that pervades the entire EU. The EMA controls the development, evaluation, approval of new drug/vaccines in the EU. So no approval, no rollout. Agreed it does not control when an individual country commences its roll out of an approved drug, but that is beside the point.

This gave the UK the freedom to analyse the data and react quickly without numerous group meetings. The EMA plan to have two more meetings in December to discuss this. It will be 2021 before they can progress towards mass vaccinations.

[Alan Medic]

Effra Wrote:

Agreed it does not control when an

> individual country commences its roll out of an

> approved drug, but that is beside the point.

I thought THAT was the point?

[diable rouge]

Today I saw a Chaffinch nibbling on a fat ball.

This would never have happened had we not left the EU...

#BenefitsofBrexit

[Blah Blah]

Effra Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agreed it does not control when an

> individual country commences its roll out of an

> approved drug, but that is beside the point.

But is not besides the point. Hungary have already gone ahead and ordered the Russian vaccine. So there is one EU member not waiting for the EMA to decide for them. What Mogg et al were saying in reality, is that if the UK were still part of the EMA, we would be playing ball and waiting for their decision. However, that is not what they implied by their comments. They distinctly gave the impression that membership of the EU would have held up the rollout of a vaccine. This is blatantly not true.