EU Trade Talks Thread

[Sephiroth]

"do you disagree about the statement re EU fishing ?"

short answer is yes I disagree. Longer answer is access to fishing waters was ALWAYS going to be part of negotiations and the UK has basically given up most of it's leverage. This was always the case but anyone who pointed out was told "project fear" - along with everything else

The UK is free to tell the EU to bog off - it just won't be very helpful to us . And this is all just a tiny taste of what's to come, not just with EU but with US, China, India etc

Plus - most of the UK catch is sold to Europe anyway. We need access to that market unless we are all going to start eating the fish and bits of fish we currently don't like

What else? Oh yeah - fishing is worth basically nothing to our economy compared to most other sectors and yet still people are getting their knickers in a twist

[Sephiroth]

Just to add - there is nothing arrogant about Barnier/the EU setting out their wish list in these documents - it's standard OP surely? Even if the likes of uncleglen think it's clever to call him "Barmier"

But I wouldn't worry - because we have been repeatedly told we hold all the cards and we will have all the deals the day after we leave

[diable rouge]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I have been avoiding the purchase of EU goods for a

> few years now

Ignoring the virtue signalling, I take it that means you weren't buying British goods either, what with us being in the EU at the time...

[Jules-and-Boo]

I don't buy meat from the EU. While the EU regulations are better than the UK ones and they have done much for the welfare of animals, they are shockingly bad at enforcing them when it comes to farming.

[Sephiroth]

I'd be interested in reading more about that Jules - any good links?

[Seabag]

Oh dear, UncleGlen is a #typonazi

I wrote ?remainders? instead of ?remainers?. Actually it was autocorrect that did it, but I accept responsibility.

Shame there?s not an autocorrect option on UG and his horrid views, it?d make life much nicer. Remember the days when you had a control panel that stopped you seeing certain posts on the EDF, sadly no more. They are the good old days, back when we were in the bosom of the EU.

It?s hard looking back sometimes, to a rosier time, when the architect of Brexit and future PM DC had his cock in a pigs face. And Boris was shagging willy nilly whoever as London Mayor.

I?m sure both of them had the EU in their thoughts constantly back then.

[Blah Blah]

Uncleglen typifies the leave narrative and the ignorance and denial it is based on. That is why he resorts to insult so easily.

Teade deals are always a negotiation with give and take on BOTH sides. This will be as true with the USA as it is with the EU.

Why would we compromise our car manufacturing sector for example, a huge part of our exports for a tiny sector like fishing? The same could be said of the city (and actually, it is the city that will be used as leverage on fishing in my opinion). Uncleglen doesn't understand these nuances. If we want continued access to EU markets with the things that are worth most to our economy, there will have to be compromises made elsewhere. The leave campaign, by nailing their masts to fishing, have essentially shot themselves in the foot.

And just another little fact. The USA is our biggest trading partner outside of the EU but we enjoy an $18 billion trading deficit with them. But wait? That is more than our membership of the EU! THAT is why the leave side never wanted to focus on the economics of existing trade. It was never an argument they could win. That will be the first thing a protectionist Trump will address in any trade negotiations. So we already will see a negative impact to our positive trade deficits just in doing that external deal.

[pk]

So it looks like Boris doesn't really know what he wants and hasn't got a plan

but he does want either Canada or Australia or 'withdrawal agreement' or WTO - so not so much 'oven ready' as reheated!

In short he doesn't want to do anything innovative or groundbreaking that other countries haven't done before

and by the governments own analysis a Canada style deal would cause the economy to shriek by 5%(ish) within 15 years

but I guess the leavers will take heart from it being a mess of our own making (except for trying to borrow the trade model already agreed by the EU with others thousands of miles away!)

it's also worth noting that Canada's deal isn't really compatible with check free borders (as promised by the Boris)

and in terms of figures, boris seems to think that doing as well as Canada is a success although our reliance on the EU as a trade partner is in a totally different ball park:

The UK exported ?291bn of goods and services to other EU countries in 2018, which was 45% of all UK exports.

It imported ?357bn of goods and services from the EU, which was 53% of all UK imports.

On the other hand, Canada exported 46.2bn Canadian dollars (?26.7bn) of goods and services to the EU in 2017, which was 7.9% of its exports.

It imported 63.6bn Canadian dollars of goods and services to the EU, which was 10.5% of its imports.

[Alan Medic]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> I don't buy meat from the EU. While the EU

> regulations are better than the UK ones and they

> have done much for the welfare of animals, they

> are shockingly bad at enforcing them when it comes

> to farming.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but wouldn't EU regulations be the bar below which members couldn't drop? Meaning, how could UK regulations be lower currently?

[Trinnydad]

At least if we go to WTO terms there will be a lot less expensive Mercedes, BMW and VW imports and a lot less cr*ppy Renault, Peugot and Fiat.

Then we can happily all drive around on Nissans made in Sunderland or Toyotas made in Barnaston. With the increased volume then they would be incentivised to achieve 100% local content and so re-build a thriving UK motor industry with a 100% local supply chain.

[Blah Blah]

Also worth pointing out Alan that CETA does not include services and requires the opening up of the Canadian public sector to tender from EU countries. The latter is something leave advocates on both left and right of the spectrum had an issue with.

[Blah Blah]

Nope Trinny. It doesn't work like that. Parts comes from all over the EU and Nissan has made it clear that a no deal Brexit changes its position. Car sales in the UK alone would not make up for the shortfall either. Walking away from a market of hundreds of millions is just lunacy.

[exdulwicher]

Ryanair posted some job adverts earlier today - first of the conditions of employment was an EU passport with unrestricted right to live and work across the EU.

Musicians Union are very concerned about it too -a no-deal Brexit or arduous visa processes would effectively end orchestra touring.

British sports teams travelling in/around Europe to compete are in the same situation.

It's not just "trade", it's the basic tenets of travelling, working across borders (which I've done numerous times, sometimes 3 or 4 countries in one day).

Even basic things like standardised roaming charges - that took YEARS for the EU to bring in and we're going to throw it away in a few months.

[Seabag]

The fish thing is ?red herring? in that it personifies the ?take control of our blah blah? perfectly, with factions getting all territorial and huffing and blowing, about how ridiculous it is.

But it?s 0.1% of our economy.

Figure it from there.

[diable rouge]

A Cabinet of all the talentless. We have a Home Secretary who doesn't know the difference between a terrorist and a counter-terrorist...

 

[Captain Marvel]

Ms. Patel v Ms. Abbott. Mmmm

I suspect if our Home Sec. were now the latter, she'd have been standing in Streatham High Road talking about police brutality

[diable rouge]

Cap'n, you need to get out of that culture warrior whataboutery bubble, this is where your contrariness for the sake of being contrary let's you down. Whether or not Abbot would be a worse HS is irrelevant. Are you going to keep on excusing Patel because Abbot might have been HS in a parallel universe? I mean, really?...

[Blah Blah]

Exactly that. Abbott is not HM so it is irrelevant. We should all be worried about the inadequacies of the one who is.

[Captain Marvel]

Do you two live together?

[diable rouge]

It's t'internet Cap'n, get with the programme...

[Captain Marvel]

Can't. Bored. see ya

[diable rouge]

Wouldn't wanna be ya...

[Seabag]

In the bigger picture, in this incidence or anything else so far, is anyone proud the actions of, or behind this government so far?

Streatham

Climate summit

The press story

Appointments or candidates

The clarity and quality of information coming out of no 10?

I?m curious to see if this is what you think you voted for, and is it pushing your buttons? Not in the ?oh great, at least XXX isn?t in position on this one?

Are we in a ?yes, this is what we want and more of it!? moment ?

Personally, I?m trying to reach across the divide and see what it might be like on the other side, but hand on heart, I?m really struggling.

[JohnL]

Still not sure if the allegations against Bercow are true or a game by the government (Cummings) - it seems like there's no scope for a proper investigation.

It's very easy to believe nefarious stuff is going on.

[stepdown]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Cap'n, you need to get out of that culture warrior

> whataboutery bubble, this is where your

> contrariness for the sake of being contrary let's

> you down.

You can hardly clutch your pearls over partisanship when you just posted a video mocking Priti Patel in a thread about EU trade talks.