EU Trade Talks Thread

[Blah Blah]

America has one of the worst obesity problems in the world. It is hardly a bastion of good diet or nutrition. Chicken is cheap because the breed of chicken used takes only 12 weeks to fatten. But it is also higher in fat than protein as a result. If we are going to produce meat, this is the wrong kind full stop. There are other varieties of chicken that take six months to reach slaughter point that are higher in protein than fat. This is what we used to farm and eat. So right there is a good example of why the drive for cheaper chicken has been detrimental to health.

But forget chicken for the moment. There are a list of ingredients permitted in the USA that are banned in the EU because they are shown to be carcinogenic. So this debate is not just about how chicken is produced, it is also about animal welfare standards and food production as a whole. Would you want to eat a corn fed cow that has never seen daylight let alone a grass field? Want to know why that cow has to be stuffed with antibiotics and other pills when a grass fed cow doesn't need to be?

I grew up on a farm. If I were not a vegetarian, I would never eat factory farmed meat or fish from anywhere. None of it is about producing the best quality and healthiest food and never has been. In my opinion, we need a complete overhual in food processing legislation that regulates more, not less.

[keano77]

?...In my opinion, we need a complete overhual in food processing legislation that regulates more, not less.?

I agree with you on this Blah Blah. Which is why I think the UK should not sign up the keep EU standards. We could have far higher standards. Look at the problems farming regulations and practises have caused for wildlife (ditches being removed to create larger open fields etc).

[Sephiroth]

" We could have far higher standards."

you could do that now if you wanted - you could have done it any time in the eu

But because you now require/desire a deal with USA you can not do it. Now you will be required to lower standards if you want a deal with USA

[keano77]

Fair point.

But it doesn?t have to be either or. We could have dual standards and give people a choice. As long as, say, chicken was labelled I don?t see a problem.

[pk]

Hopefully we can all agree that whatever trade arrangements we end up making shipping stuff from e.g. the US rather than the EU ain?t going to be good for the planet

[keano77]

Green issues are certainly going to be high up on the agenda in the new normal pk

[Sephiroth]

You don?t think it?s prohibitively/logistically expensive for companies to run dual lines ?

[keano77]

Not necessarily but I?m not referring to individuals companies exactly.

There?s nothing difficult in supermarkets/shops selling different type of chickens - barn, free-range, corn-fed, Red Tractor assured, EU approved, US approved etc

All of them are safe to eat. Just mark it up and let people decide

[Sephiroth]

Yes but who do british farmers sell to? And how do they manage both ?

[keano77]

Don?t understand your question

[Sephiroth]

You have a farm. You sell, let?s say, 100 chickens a month

Currently you sell to a known market

In the future who do you sell to? Europe or America/England? (Remember you are competing with a bajillion others)

You can?t split the difference and have two production methods on the farm

[keano77]

Of course you can have different methods.

One shed as now. Second shed different feed. Third shed layers. Online sales. Dog food and cat food market etc

That?s the problem with CAP. It subsidises inefficiency and stifles competition

[Sephiroth]

Unbelievable

Clueless even

[keano77]

In not too many years time when the animal rights people get their way your farmer will be playing Mozart to his chickens and giving them Shiatsu Massages.

?Meat? is being grown in Petri dishes, structurally altered to be fibrous, coloured and flavoured and veggies and vegans are flocking to Burger King and other outlets to stuff their faces with it.

The nearest your grandchildren might come to a chicken is in a zoo.

The world?s changing fast Sephiroth, Adapt or die.

[Sephiroth]

I used chicken farmers as an example

But you can take any british business selling to new multiple markets and increasing paperwork and costs associated with multiple regulation regimes

Your handwave ?world is changing? is meaningless

[keano77]

But isn?t that the whole point? - get rid of most of the red-tape and let farmers farm and produce instead of filling out bloody forms.

[Sephiroth]

But if you have to duplicate effort for multiple markets that is more red tape.

That?s the point of the eu. Removing red tape

You sell to multiple markets you increase red tape

[keano77]

...That?s the point of the eu. Removing red tape ...

In theory yes, a worthy ideal to aspire to. In practice billions of tax payers? money feeds an army of bureaucrats who Perpetuate a protectionist dystopia.

[Sephiroth]

You are just parroting lines detached from any reality

[keano77]

I must say Sephiroth, you?re being very civil tonight.

[Sephiroth]

I did wonder. I?m annoyed with myself

[Sephiroth]

I suspect jimlad doesn?t agree, to be fair

[Blah Blah]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course you can have different methods.

>

> One shed as now. Second shed different feed. Third

> shed layers. Online sales. Dog food and cat food

> market etc

>

> That?s the problem with CAP. It subsidises

> inefficiency and stifles competition

No you can't. This would be a nightmare to regulate and causes all sort of issues for farmers too. We have regulation around food for all sorts of reasons, including to make sure we don't get ill.

As for synthetic meat, that is still some time away as it is still very expensive to produce. Yes it may well be the future and there are lots of benefits to producing meat in this way, but it is not happening yet.

[keano77]

An example would be a company that makes snacks. One area, often in a separate building but on the same site is nut free.

Bread can be made with flour and also gluten free as long as there?s no contamination.

It?s not that difficult and is an everyday occurrence. Admittedly this is easier for bigger companies.

[keano77]

As for synthetic meat, that is still some time away as it is still very expensive to produce. Yes it may well be the future and there are lots of benefits to producing meat in this way, but it is not happening yet.

Good point Blah Blah. I think commercially we?re at the plant-based meat stage.