Man alone in Dulwich park playground (Lounged)

[JohnL]

pk Wrote:

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> did I say anything about paedophilia? I just said

> I'd advise caution

Cautions always OK - anyway public conveniences don't really exist anymore - certainly not in the unregulated way they did back in those days.

Edit: in the ideal world the childrens park area would have an attendant, but with 5% more cuts incoming that will hit on local authorities I guess that won't be happening.

[DuncanW]

Those that counsel caution against assuming a lone man in a is a threat to children, make a valid point. And the tone of the OP would suggest he or she is well aware of that.

But I have to be honest, the string of potential justifications why a lone man could be hanging around in a kids' play park are completely beyond me. There is a law against that and anyone who is flouting that is rightly a cause for concern.

[pk]

jimlad48 Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > jimlad48 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > The OP wasn't prepared to

> > > take action, but was prepared to post without

> a

> > > shred of evidence a post that strongly hinted

> > at

> > > dodgy behaviour for the crime of standing by

> > > oneself. It was utterly clear what they were

> > > hinting at.

> >

> > the OP said:

> >

> > "I was with my baby and didn't feel confident

> > questioning him, although i now regret that"

> >

> > "I know it seems over the top but i felt

> > uncomfortable"

> >

> > you're all for coming up with reasons that some

> > one might hang out in a play area in breach of

> the

> > bye laws, but you're not prepared to come up

> with

> > any reasons why a parent of a baby might be

> > uncomfortable or lack confidence?

> >

> > that's odd to me

>

>

> Simple - the parent could have rung the police

> then, or on their return. If its that serious then

> do something about it - don't just log onto EDF

> and cast aspersions on another person minding

> their own business.

so you know the identity of the other person?

and that they were just minding their business?

I guess you do as you're accusing someone of slander (wrongly)

I read it for what it said, a parent feeling uncomfortable

[jimlad48]

pk Wrote:

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> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > pk Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > jimlad48 Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > The OP wasn't prepared to

> > > > take action, but was prepared to post

> without

> > a

> > > > shred of evidence a post that strongly

> hinted

> > > at

> > > > dodgy behaviour for the crime of standing

> by

> > > > oneself. It was utterly clear what they

> were

> > > > hinting at.

> > >

> > > the OP said:

> > >

> > > "I was with my baby and didn't feel confident

> > > questioning him, although i now regret that"

> > >

> > > "I know it seems over the top but i felt

> > > uncomfortable"

> > >

> > > you're all for coming up with reasons that

> some

> > > one might hang out in a play area in breach

> of

> > the

> > > bye laws, but you're not prepared to come up

> > with

> > > any reasons why a parent of a baby might be

> > > uncomfortable or lack confidence?

> > >

> > > that's odd to me

> >

> >

> > Simple - the parent could have rung the police

> > then, or on their return. If its that serious

> then

> > do something about it - don't just log onto EDF

> > and cast aspersions on another person minding

> > their own business.

>

> so you know the identity of the other person?

>

> and that they were just minding their business?

>

> I guess you do as you're accusing someone of

> slander (wrongly)

>

> I read it for what it said, a parent feeling

> uncomfortable

I don't know the other person. I do though feel that there was a range of options open to the OP that could safely and approriately handled the situation and got trained professionals to assess the risks and take action.

Posting 'something doesnt feel right' around a person, on the face of it, doing nothing other than minding their own business is a totally innapropriate response. As noted in my original posts, there would be indicators that would absolutely warrant concern (and a 999 call), but as none of these seem to have happened, this just seems to be a case of blatantly sexist discrimination against someone who has done nothing wrong and is now being described on the internet in the language that strongly implies they are a pervert. If I recognised myself in that description and knew I'd been present for innocent reasons, I would be taking legal advice now with a view to suing.

[tallulah71]

Even calling the police seems a bit far-fetched. Why not go to the office and report it if you really had concerns. As fr as the bye-law goes, I was unaware of that; is it on a sign somewhere?

[JohnL]

It's there - under the "first set" pdf file section 4 of https://www.southwark.gov.uk/noise-and-antisocial-behaviour/antisocial-behaviour-byelaws

I was unaware also but would be unlikely to be caught out (as I was at school when I last entered a childrens play area).

[tallulah71]

I wonder how many people consult the southwark website, before taking a walk to the park, to check if they're breaking any bye-laws.

[DuncanW]

tallulah71 Wrote:

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> I wonder how many people consult the southwark

> website, before taking a walk to the park, to

> check if they're breaking any bye-laws.

Not many, I would imagine. But I would hope that most people would have the required judgement to recognise that hanging around in the kiddie's play park as a grown adult without any attendant children is not the right thing to do.

[TE44]

Byelaws are determined by local authorities, unfortunately I have been unable to find out if this covers Dulwich park. I have spoken to someone at council who has given me an email, parksatsouthwark.gov.uk.where any questions regarding the law around this can be answered. I can't email.

I can understand how this could be an issue for people, everyone has different experiences, just as there may be many reasons this was a totally innocent situation, there are many reasons people may think it is not. I appreciate the op posting as it would be interesting to hear what the parks would recommend should a situation arise where there is a worry.

I say this as a mother whose sons often meet up with there sister and my grandddaughter, she can often be late,and they are left hanging around. The op gave no description and has shared her uneasyness which has brought to attention a number of issues. If anyone emails and gets a reply I would be intersted to know.

[pk]

jimlad48 Wrote:

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jimlad48 Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> >

> I do though feel that there was a range of options open to the OP

> that could safely and approriately handled the

> situation and got trained professionals to assess

> the risks and take action.

you think that they should've got trained professionals in? really? who?

>

> a case of blatantly sexist

> discrimination against someone who has done

> nothing wrong

but you don't know what they have or haven't done? and the persons suffered no detriment

> and is now being described on the internet in the language that strongly implies

> they are a pervert.

which language are you talking about that strongly implies anything?

> If I recognised myself in that v description and knew I'd been present for innocent

> reasons, I would be taking legal advice now with a view to suing.

they'd tell you that you're wasting your time and money and that you don't understand what slander is

[TE44]

JohnL Wrote:

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> It's there - under the "first set" pdf file

> section 4 of

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/noise-and-antisocial-

> behaviour/antisocial-behaviour-byelaws

>

> I was unaware also but would be unlikely to be

> caught out (as I was at school when I last entered

> a childrens play area).

JohnL, I cant see anywhere on the link you provided above that states adults cannot enter enclosed children play areas unless accompanied by a chid, have I missed it.

[jimlad48]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > pk Wrote:

> > >

> > I do though feel that there was a range of

> options open to the OP

> > that could safely and approriately handled the

> > situation and got trained professionals to

> assess

> > the risks and take action.

>

> you think that they should've got trained

> professionals in? really? who?

>

> >

> > a case of blatantly sexist

> > discrimination against someone who has done

> > nothing wrong

>

> but you don't know what they have or haven't done?

> and the persons suffered no detriment

>

> > and is now being described on the internet in

> the language that strongly implies

> > they are a pervert.

>

> which language are you talking about that strongly

> implies anything?

>

> > If I recognised myself in that v description and

> knew I'd been present for innocent

> > reasons, I would be taking legal advice now with

> a view to suing.

>

> they'd tell you that you're wasting your time and

> money and that you don't understand what slander

> is

I'd say that if they were concerned enough to want to report someone online, they should have been concerned enough to raise it with the police if they felt there was a genuine safety issue.

The police do listen and report these incidents, and if others have been reported may have useful information or perspective that others do not. They would have been the right point of call, either as a 999 in the case of clear offences, such as filming, masturbating or acting in a manner that implied grooming (for instance), or 112 if they felt worried for other reasons.

The whole point here is someone has decided that something doesnt pass the 'I need to get professionals involved' test, but does pass the 'I can make a post warning about someone' on the internet test. If it was a problem they should have taken the right steps to seek help, not just slander an innocent passer by minding his own business online.

As noted above, there are plenty of perfectly innocent and legitimate reasons for an adult to be alone in a playground.

[pk]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > jimlad48 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > jimlad48 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > pk Wrote:

> > > >

> > > I do though feel that there was a range of

> > options open to the OP

> > > that could safely and approriately handled

> the

> > > situation and got trained professionals to

> > assess

> > > the risks and take action.

> >

> > you think that they should've got trained

> > professionals in? really? who?

> >

> > >

> > > a case of blatantly sexist

> > > discrimination against someone who has done

> > > nothing wrong

> >

> > but you don't know what they have or haven't

> done?

> > and the persons suffered no detriment

> >

> > > and is now being described on the internet in

> > the language that strongly implies

> > > they are a pervert.

> >

> > which language are you talking about that

> strongly

> > implies anything?

> >

> > > If I recognised myself in that v description

> and

> > knew I'd been present for innocent

> > > reasons, I would be taking legal advice now

> with

> > a view to suing.

> >

> > they'd tell you that you're wasting your time

> and

> > money and that you don't understand what

> slander

> > is

>

> I'd say that if they were concerned enough to want

> to report someone online, they should have been

> concerned enough to raise it with the police if

> they felt there was a genuine safety issue.

>

> The police do listen and report these incidents,

> and if others have been reported may have useful

> information or perspective that others do not.

> They would have been the right point of call,

> either as a 999 in the case of clear offences,

> such as filming, masturbating or acting in a

> manner that implied grooming (for instance), or

> 112 if they felt worried for other reasons.

>

> The whole point here is someone has decided that

> something doesnt pass the 'I need to get

> professionals involved' test, but does pass the 'I

> can make a post warning about someone' on the

> internet test. If it was a problem they should

> have taken the right steps to seek help, not just

> slander an innocent passer by minding his own

> business online.

>

> As noted above, there are plenty of perfectly

> innocent and legitimate reasons for an adult to be

> alone in a playground.

can't be bothered, there's so much contradiction and inaccuracy in all of the above

[JohnL]

Hi TE44 - hope I'm not overdoing the instructions :)

Click on the link

Click on "first set" to download the PDF file

Click on the downloaded PDF file to open it (it's at the bottom of the browser)

Scroll down to Part 4

and

"Children?s play areas

15. (1) No person aged 14 years or over shall enter or remain in a designated

area which is a children?s play area unless in charge of a child under

the age of 14 years.

(2) Byelaw 15(1) applies only to the grounds listed in Part 1 of Schedule

2. "

The list of parks (I noticed it's been asked) includes Peckham Rye and Dulwich (Part 1*** of Schedule 2 further down)

***Actually the list is Part 2 of Schedule 2 (think they got it wrong)

[SpringTime]

So was he a paedo or wasn't he? Let's have some pictures of the culprit posted online and then we can start a witch hunt. A rumour's as good as an accusation and that's as good as guilty by definition in my book. Torches and pitchforks at the ready.

[SpringTime]

PS the glasses could be a disguise.

PPS are we sure it's a man?

[TE44]

Thanks JohnL, I expect there's a notice on gate.

I don't think it's easy for parents, i've found myself instinctively getting a bad feeling that cannot be put down to behaviour, then there is no legal justification on taking any action other than keep a watchful eye and have a word with your children.

[tallulah71]

Also the OP says, 'alone and not with any family group' (or words to that effect). Could she not have asked the other parents / carers their opinion on the situation? I agree with jimlad48. If you feel this strongly about a situation that is your absolute right as a mother's protective intuition, but the way it's been handled is wrong IMO.

[NewWave]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Jeez I?m gobsmacked that an adult in a playground

> without a child accompanying is automatically

> under suspicion as a pervert.

> OMFG

I have to say hands up I am a middle aged woman who now and again fancies a go on the swings...(this is the truth..I'm not posting this to stir anything up).

And I admit I have been known to sit alone in or near the playground on Goose Green,In Dulwich park and also Horniman triangle waiting for a quiet opportunity to get on a swing and go "wheee!!!!" and relive the sheer joy of swinging higher and higher for 5 mins...

I would be really upset to think someone would think I was some kind of pervert for being alone in or near a playground

[siousxiesue]

NewWave Wrote:

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> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Jeez I?m gobsmacked that an adult in a

> playground

> > without a child accompanying is automatically

> > under suspicion as a pervert.

> > OMFG

>

>

> I have to say hands up I am a middle aged woman

> who now and again fancies a go on the

> swings...(this is the truth..I'm not posting this

> to stir anything up).

> And I admit I have been known to sit alone in or

> near the playground on Goose Green,In Dulwich park

> and also Horniman triangle waiting for a quiet

> opportunity to get on a swing and go "wheee!!!!"

> and relive the sheer joy of swinging higher and

> higher for 5 mins...

> I would be really upset to think someone would

> think I was some kind of pervert for being alone

> in or near a playground

As soon as the Rye playground was unveiled, I was desperate for an adults only session, say around 9pm on a summer night!!

[NewWave]

@siouxsiesue I'm IN!!!!!

[Spartacus]

@siouxsiesue will there be Cider ?

[fleothecat]

I called 101 this morning so it is logged with the police.

This is the first time i have ever been worried by an adult at a playground after years of. Going as an older sibling, auntie, godmother, volunteer. There are always men there and i don't think that people are making assumptions that men in general aren't to be trusted.

[KidKruger]

NewWave: "I would be really upset to think someone would think I was some kind of pervert for being alone in or near a playground"

Unfortunately, being a woman, that accolade would probably not be bestowed on you.

Seems to be what the blokes get.

It's funny, this whole over-thinking episode, it reminds me of an incident a few years ago at Goose Green kids' playground. I was there with my youngest, who was running around with her friends. I saw a child fall over and hurt herself, crying. I did the customary looking around for a parent, upon not seeing anyone interested I approached the child, stood her up and helped wipe the grit off her knees while asking if/where she hurt.

The child was broadly OK, just shaken as would be normal. Suddenly a hand on my shoulder wrenches me away from the child and a Mum (who it turned-out was chatting with friends at the far end of the park) is warning me not go near her child. I explained that the child was hurt, alarmed and alone. Not good enough - 'stay away from my child' !

[NewWave]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> NewWave: "I would be really upset to think someone

> would think I was some kind of pervert for being

> alone in or near a playground"

>

> Unfortunately, being a woman, that accolade would

> probably not be bestowed on you.

> Seems to be what the blokes get.

>

> It's funny, this whole over-thinking episode, it

> reminds me of an incident a few years ago at Goose

> Green kids' playground. I was there with my

> youngest, who was running around with her friends.

> I saw a child fall over and hurt herself, crying.

> I did the customary looking around for a parent,

> upon not seeing anyone interested I approached the

> child, stood her up and helped wipe the grit off

> her knees while asking if/where she hurt.

> The child was broadly OK, just shaken as would be

> normal. Suddenly a hand on my shoulder wrenches me

> away from the child and a Mum (who it turned-out

> was chatting with friends at the far end of the

> park) is warning me not go near her child. I

> explained that the child was hurt, alarmed and

> alone. Not good enough - 'stay away from my child'

> !

Yes I think its very sad that we live in times whereby it is naturally mostly wrongly assumed that people (especially men) are up to no good if they approach an upset child to check it is ok when the parents aren't in obvious sight.

I have to confess that even though I am a woman when I saw a small child wandering around a shop (about 4years old a little girl) tearful crying "where's my mummy? where's my mummy? mummy?" she wasn't actually screaming crying but tearful and bewildered looking..lots of people were walking past her...I confess that I was too afraid to take her hand and lead to try and find her mother or take her to the security guard in case it caused her more distress so keeping her in sight I grabbed a store employee and pointed her out and asked her to help.

Years ago I would have taken her by the hand and chatted to her and walked her to the store security desk to have a call made over the tannoy system..now because of the general 'Stranger danger' I felt at a loss.

As a small child growing up in central london I used to have to get a bus on my own to school from the age of 7 due to having full time working parents..my mum drummed into me that I mustn't talk to strangers, and if there was anyone trying to talk to me on the bus or if I got scared to tell the conductor ...the other thing drummed into me was to always ask a policeman or someone in a shop for help if I had someone following.

That was in the 60's now there are no Bus conductors to look out for us or our kids, no guards on trains, often no staff in Ticket offices at stations (and less going forward)

There are no police on the streets and no local police stations.

Its tough for inner city kids these days