LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[ed_pete]

Bstch 3 - approved. Cameras to stop traffic heading north through Dulwich Village at peak times. Also aame on Townley to stop traffic exiting to EDG 8-10 , 3-6

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=7153

[eastdulwichhenry]

ed_pete Wrote:

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> Bstch 3 - approved. Cameras to stop traffic

> heading north through Dulwich Village at peak

> times. Also aame on Townley to stop traffic

> exiting to EDG 8-10 , 3-6

>

> http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetail

> s.aspx?ID=7153

Re Townley, that's a step in the right direction but the biggest problem on Townley Road is the parents dropping kids off at Alleyn's, and it doesn't sound that will achieve that. It needs to be no traffic at all at those hours. Except I suppose for the coaches. They are a nuisance too, but kids have to get to school somehow!

[Abe_froeman]

The kiss of death for the businesses and sports club in dulwich village.

[rupert james]

Are my thoughts on the above correct.

With Townley closed at the times stated does that mean with Elsie, melbourne Grove etc all traffic will have to go via Lordship Lane/ EDG to get to the village and points west or drive all the way up to the south circular by the old grove tavern and come back past the picture gallery.

After drop off where do the coaches go?

Has any common sense been applied to this

[JohnL]

ED_moots Wrote:

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> To me this document states Southwark will use

> covid lockdown (which we're out of for now) to

> expedite plans to reduce car use by 50% in the

> Borough. Its a bold target, being executed poorly,

> and with little/no consultation of Southwark's

> constituents.

>

> http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/documents/s898

> 03/Report%20Streetspace%20Plan.pdf

>

> So yes, a war on car use, certainly.

Think war on the legacy car but what replaces it I'm not 100% sure on yet.

[JohnL]

It would be useful for people to think where we should be in 5 years ?

Change managers will always jump on a big event to implement changes that were coming anyway, the chaos and dissatisfaction helps change because people start to demand "something different". This is an aim of the change process.

[Rockets]

eastdulwichhenry Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ed_pete Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Bstch 3 - approved. Cameras to stop traffic

> > heading north through Dulwich Village at peak

> > times. Also aame on Townley to stop traffic

> > exiting to EDG 8-10 , 3-6

> >

> >

> http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetail

>

> > s.aspx?ID=7153

>

> Re Townley, that's a step in the right direction

> but the biggest problem on Townley Road is the

> parents dropping kids off at Alleyn's, and it

> doesn't sound that will achieve that. It needs to

> be no traffic at all at those hours. Except I

> suppose for the coaches. They are a nuisance too,

> but kids have to get to school somehow!

But why - Townley is probably the least populated road in the whole of the area - why deem it ok to close that to force traffic along more populated routes to sit in traffic? It makes no sense unless you are hellbent on preventing any east/west travel across Dulwich.

What is the issue you see with Townley currently - all I can see is that there is a problem at drop and pick-up time but it is next to three large schools so surely that is to be expected?

[andrewc]

This morning at 9.30am

[andrewc]

East Dulwich Grove at 9.30am this morning

[Metallic]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Other than these two spots (bare in mind that this

> is rush hour), I saw very little evidence of the

> 'TRAFFIC CHAOS!!!' people have suggested.

>

> My advice would be go and take a walk yourself.

> Both at rush hour and other times of day.

So where are your photos from 7.30 - 8.30 AM? Oh, still in bed?

[Metallic]

andrewc Wrote:

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> East Dulwich Grove at 9.30am this morning

Don't you understand? All this upheaval and misery for people who live in the area is during certain times! No one says it is always blocked. This is what makes all these flower tubs and potentially the cameras all over the place a total waste of money. TIMED CLOSURES!!!!!!!

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's pretty clear to me that there is not the widespread gridlock some people are claiming. There are high levels of traffic during rush hour, but it was always so. I do wonder whether the temporary respite caused by the lockdown has led people to forget what the roads were like before.

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> It's pretty clear to me that there is not the

> widespread gridlock some people are claiming.

> There are high levels of traffic during rush hour,

> but it was always so. I do wonder whether the

> temporary respite caused by the lockdown has led

> people to forget what the roads were like before.

By that argument are you now saying that actually the supposed increase in traffic caused by Covid (and remember this was the catalyst for these closures apparently) has not materialised therefore negating the need for the closures?

[Abe_froeman]

"There are high levels of traffic during rush hour, but it was always so"

So these measure have already failed.

[northernmonkey]

In answer to your question as to whether your thoughts are correct - the answer is ?no? not really.

The timed closures are one direction only and they are bus gates. So the school coaches will go through in either direction as well as local busses (p4)

rupert james Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Are my thoughts on the above correct.

>

> With Townley closed at the times stated does that

> mean with Elsie, melbourne Grove etc all traffic

> will have to go via Lordship Lane/ EDG to get to

> the village and points west or drive all the way

> up to the south circular by the old grove tavern

> and come back past the picture gallery.

>

> After drop off where do the coaches go?

>

> Has any common sense been applied to this

[sally buying]

How do these timed closures effect cars, do they have to follow the route mentioned above?

[tiddles]

I think the best way to evaluate the current situation would be to ask the bus drivers if they have noticed any significant changes (or not)

[JohnL]

Councillor James McAsh has commented on this on his latest Goose Green newsletter (emailed).

link here https://www.jamesmcash.com/blog/goose-green-newsletter-september-2020?ss_source=sscampaigns&ss_campaign_id=5f51f6d6db87c17f672f168d&ss_email_id=5f51f8b4db87c17f672f1931&ss_campaign_name=Goose+Green+Newsletter+-+September+2020&ss_campaign_sent_date=2020-09-04T08%3A20%3A23Z

[alice]

I wonder if people posted their street address alongside their comments would make objectivity clearer.

[Rockets]

Here is Cllr McAsh's update in full...make of it what you will but there are plenty of lines to read between and there is quite a bit of getting his defence in early....

Interesting he acknowledges there are being problems caused by the measures - although he is clearly trying to position it as a bedding in/generic increase in traffic perspective.

You can leave a comment on his blog too...might be a good way for some of those missing their communication channel on here to give some input.

ELECTING A NEW COUNCIL LEADERSHIP

On Monday 7th September the Labour Group (which includes all Southwark Labour Councillors) will host its AGM. Cllr Peter John has not stood for re-election as Leader so we will soon have a new leader of Southwark Council. A hustings was organised for local Labour Party members on 2nd September and Labour Group will have a further hustings on Saturday the 5th. It would be interesting to hear from Labour members who attended the hustings about who they preferred for the post.

The council?s AGM will be on the 16th September. Posts elected there will be in place until next May.

LOW TRAFFIC NEIGHBOURHOODS

Like many local authorities around London and the country, Southwark has implemented a number of ?low traffic neighbourhood? (LTN) measures, including in Goose Green.

What is an LTN?

The idea behind an LTN is to encourage cycling and walking, and discourage car use. This is achieved by closing some roads to motor vehicles, and making others accessible from only one end - thereby removing it as a through-route but maintaining car access. The latter measure has been, or will shortly be, implemented in five locations in Goose Green: Melbourne Grove north (near Grove Vale), Melbourne Grove south (between Tell Grove and Ashbourne Grove), Derwent Grove, Elsie Road and Tintagel Crescent. There are others nearby in Dulwich Hill and Dulwich Village wards.

Why now?

LTNs have existed for many years but they have become much more common in recent months. Why? Social distancing rules mean that fewer people are using public transport. Journeys which were previously taken by bus are now taken by car, by bike or on foot. But increased car traffic makes the other two options less safe, less pleasant and therefore less appealing. LTNs attempt to rebalance this and encourage ?active transport? - which is much healthier and much more environmentally friendly.

The process

Normally when the council alters the road layout it would first go through a lengthy consultation - like in the case of the controlled parking zone. However, covid made this impossible. Reduced staff capacity and limitations created by the lockdown and social distancing rules made it hard to run any consultations effectively. And, in this case, there was a need to act quickly: as lockdown lifts new habits will set in so if the roads become inhospitable to pedestrians and cyclists this will be harder to change later. So most councils, including Southwark, opted to implement the measures as ?emergency? orders. This means that they can be in place for up to 18 months. After this, they may become permanent, but that will depend on how successful they are.

What do residents think?

Despite restrictions on council-wide consultations, we councillors did put out a survey. It was only circulated digitally but, given this, the response was relatively good. We shared the results in the last newsletter but they are here again for reference. In summary: residents on these four streets were overwhelmingly supportive of the measures.

However, we have also received complaints and criticisms of the measures - primarily from those living on nearby streets.

Evaluation

It is inevitable that there will be initial problems caused by the LTN measures. Many road users are still unaccustomed to the measures and try to go through streets which they can no longer use as a through-route. This means that the traffic on the streets they can use has risen. This is exacerbated further by the general increase in car traffic that we have seen across London.

The hope is that when everyone becomes used to the new roads, the number of cars (and the associated pollution) will prove to be lower than it would have been without the measures. At the moment, it is too early to tell.

We will also evaluate the impact from an equalities perspective: even if the community benefits as a whole we still want to know who are the ?winners? and ?losers? from the measures.

[heartblock]

Oh look no traffic on East Dulwich Grove again...... oh sorry I meant standing traffic at 15:00 today

[Rockets]

Rahrahrah - quick, get on your bike with the magic traffic evaporation tool you have developed to clear the streets - it worked wonders yesterday....;-)

[heartblock]

Well rockets.. I think Rahrahrah can stay at my gaff if they can make the traffic on my road disappear.

[heartblock]

Emergency first response paramedic car stuck in the gridlock... Only adding as it was blaring out it sirens for a good few minutes and I was trying to record a presentation. Gridlock continues both lanes now. Can Rahrahrah bring his magic wand to make it all disappear?

[Serena2012]

I can?t upload photos, but my experience of the Northern section of East Dulwich Grove over the past two days:

Queuing traffic stretching down EDG from the junction of Lordship Lane even further than the junction of Elsie Road for an hour from between 8.15/8.30 both days

Queuing traffic of similar length for two hours between 12.30 and 2.30 both days

Queuing traffic of a similar length for around 3 hours from 3.30ish yesterday evening. Traffic is at a standstill again now.

How is this acceptable? This is against a backdrop of there being hardly any idling traffic on this stretch of road previously. In fact, I can only remember it happening once before, despite having lived here for the best part of a decade.

There have been a lot more sirens as well, as emergency vehicles desperately fight their way through the tailbacks.

And as for those taking photos claiming this isn?t the case, I?d love to know on which roads you live.