LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[thebestnameshavegone]

Bicknell Wrote:

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> Dont bother about the elderly. Just a small

> minority....Let them sit in traffic jams..Better

> still throw a protective ring of planters round

> them.

I'm not aware of residential schemes that have cut off homes from motor access entirely. Please share details if you have any though.

I'm sure if people *really* cared about these groups they'd have no qualms about making all on road parking outside local shops blue badge only

[rupert james]

How about those that do not meet the Council road test that they qualify for the badge.

Many elderly people, like my wife, can just about walk with great problems but Southwark say they can walk, cycle or sit at home and as they can walk 10 yards there is not a problem.

After making trips without using the car she is usually in great pain for many days.

You may not beware but Southwark is finding any excuse to cancel blue badges as reported many times in the Southwark Times.

[Sally Eva]

Blue badges are cancelled automatically if a person loses entitlement to Personal Independence Payment. The test for PIP is the ability to walk 20m safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a reasonable time. A reasonable time in this context means not taking more than twice as long as a non-disabled person.

If your wife has lost PIP but should be entitled to it under these rules, she should appeal or (if she is out of time to appeal) should re-apply and appeal any refusal. These decisions are overturned more often than not and 70% are overturned with assistance such as that provided by the CAB.

Southwark will give a blue badge even if PIP is refused, if she fulfills certain criteria. If you feel that she fulfills the criteria but has been wrongly refused, then you can appeal Southwark's decision. You will need to provide evidence but your wife's GP should be able to provide this.

[spider69]

What blue badge owners have told me and what you may or not be aware of assessments are made by outside contractors, not doctors or consultants but 0ccupational therapists who do not refer to doctors or consultants opinions or evidence but a tick box questionnaire.

This may have changed as so many were being rejected.

So medical evidence was being disregarded.

Lets hope you do not have to jump through so many hoops when you lose the act of mobility.

[kiera]

I agree with your good advice, Sally Eva, except for one point. We are talking about an elderly lady. If her PIP has been stopped, yes, she can appeal, but she would not be a eligible to reclaim PIP. For a fresh claim, a person has to be below state pension age.

[Chunx]

For your information there are many non old disabled people whom live in Dulwich that now find all of these road closures to cars an infringement on their basic human right. Having any additional challenges when attempting to live independently is bad enough, but when we are not even considered I think is discriminatory.

[Sally Eva]

Yes, you are right of course.

Someone over pension age must claim Attendance Allowance which doesn't have a mobility component. The care component is very similar to Disability Living Allowance.

Looking at the BB criteria here https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking/disabled-parking/blue-badge the criteria are 8 pts of the mobility component of PIP (which is easier than the 20m which I quoted) or the higher rate of Disability Living Allowance mobility (which would only apply to children ATM)

If southwark use an outside medical agency to assess applicants, they are still responsible for the decision which can be appealed.

kiera Wrote:

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> I agree with your good advice, Sally Eva, except

> for one point. We are talking about an elderly

> lady. If her PIP has been stopped, yes, she can

> appeal, but she would not be a eligible to reclaim

> PIP. For a fresh claim, a person has to be below

> state pension age.

[first mate]

One wonders how fair the issue of meeting criteria is? Certainly those companies contracted to assess for PIP on behalf of DWP are seriously dodgy and deliberately skew or even lie at assessment in order to fail people. It is known that having gone through the horrendous process of PIP assessment and then being failed, a proportion of applicants will be too ?beaten? and scared to appeal. The hope is that the council is not going the same route.

Sally Eva Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blue badges are cancelled automatically if a

> person loses entitlement to Personal Independence

> Payment. The test for PIP is the ability to walk

> 20m safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a

> reasonable time. A reasonable time in this context

> means not taking more than twice as long as a

> non-disabled person.

>

> If your wife has lost PIP but should be entitled

> to it under these rules, she should appeal or (if

> she is out of time to appeal) should re-apply and

> appeal any refusal. These decisions are overturned

> more often than not and 70% are overturned with

> assistance such as that provided by the CAB.

>

> Southwark will give a blue badge even if PIP is

> refused, if she fulfills certain criteria. If you

> feel that she fulfills the criteria but has been

> wrongly refused, then you can appeal Southwark's

> decision. You will need to provide evidence but

> your wife's GP should be able to provide this.

[Sally Eva]

That is certainly right. Remember, the DWP tests are rubbish. Appeal.

The council assessors I do not know but if they are Now Medical who do homelessness assessments then they have been criticised by judges over and over again. Appeal.

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> One wonders how fair the issue of meeting criteria

> is? Certainly those companies contracted to assess

> for PIP on behalf of DWP are seriously dodgy and

> deliberately skew or even lie at assessment in

> order to fail people. It is known that having gone

> through the horrendous process of PIP assessment

> and then being failed, a proportion of applicants

> will be too ?beaten? and scared to appeal. The

> hope is that the council is not going the same

> route.

>

> Sally Eva Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Blue badges are cancelled automatically if a

> > person loses entitlement to Personal

> Independence

> > Payment. The test for PIP is the ability to

> walk

> > 20m safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a

> > reasonable time. A reasonable time in this

> context

> > means not taking more than twice as long as a

> > non-disabled person.

> >

> > If your wife has lost PIP but should be

> entitled

> > to it under these rules, she should appeal or

> (if

> > she is out of time to appeal) should re-apply

> and

> > appeal any refusal. These decisions are

> overturned

> > more often than not and 70% are overturned with

> > assistance such as that provided by the CAB.

> >

> > Southwark will give a blue badge even if PIP is

> > refused, if she fulfills certain criteria. If

> you

> > feel that she fulfills the criteria but has

> been

> > wrongly refused, then you can appeal

> Southwark's

> > decision. You will need to provide evidence but

> > your wife's GP should be able to provide this.

[Wil72]

Just a reminder that you can join the people that have set up One Dulwich if you are as fed up with these road closures as us;

https://www.onedulwich.uk

I travelled from East Dulwich to West Norwood yesterday in the middle of the afternoon (to buy paint so couldn't walk or cycle)

It took me 40 minutes to get there and 35 minutes to get back which is twice as long as it would have taken before these ridiculous road closures.

I sat in a huge queue of traffic at the bottom of Lordship Lane trying to get on to the South Circular- backed up as far as Court Lane. Then sat in yet more queuing traffic on the South Circular, then the same on the way back.

Anyone that thinks these closures are creating less pollution is insane.

And this is the quietest it will ever be- wait until the Football & Rugby fixtures start at the weekends, the children go back to school and everyone is unfurloughed and driving at rush hour...

Add your experiences to the Southwark map- I am sure the Council will do their best to ignore them so join One Dulwich to make your voice heard too.

https://dulwichvillagestreetspace.commonplace.is

They are treating us local residents like idiots...

[thebestnameshavegone]

If you're sitting in traffic complaining about traffic, you *are* traffic.

l72 Wrote:

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> Just a reminder that you can join the people that

> have set up One Dulwich if you are as fed up with

> these road closures as us;

>

> [Link to angry motorist website]

> I travelled from East Dulwich to West Norwood

> yesterday in the middle of the afternoon (to buy

> paint so couldn't walk or cycle)

>

> It took me 40 minutes to get there and 35 minutes

> to get back which is twice as long as it would

> have taken before these ridiculous road closures.

>

>

> I sat in a huge queue of traffic at the bottom of

> Lordship Lane trying to get on to the South

> Circular- backed up as far as Court Lane. Then sat

> in yet more queuing traffic on the South Circular,

> then the same on the way back.

>

> Anyone that thinks these closures are creating

> less pollution is insane.

>

> And this is the quietest it will ever be- wait

> until the Football & Rugby fixtures start at the

> weekends, the children go back to school and

> everyone is unfurloughed and driving at rush

> hour...

>

> Add your experiences to the Southwark map- I am

> sure the Council will do their best to ignore them

> so join One Dulwich to make your voice heard too.

>

[well funded website from angry motorists]

>

> They are treating us local residents like

> idiots...

[womanofdulwich]

Perhaps a fault line will develop in the Village- those west can get to West Norwood, those East will start to go to Peckham or Forest Hill /Catford. Plough Homecraft will benefit.

[redpost]

Excellent, everything working as expected

Next time you will plan ahead and negate the need for a car journey

Wil72 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just a reminder that you can join the people that

> have set up One Dulwich if you are as fed up with

> these road closures as us;

>

> https://www.onedulwich.uk

>

> I travelled from East Dulwich to West Norwood

> yesterday in the middle of the afternoon (to buy

> paint so couldn't walk or cycle)

>

> It took me 40 minutes to get there and 35 minutes

> to get back which is twice as long as it would

> have taken before these ridiculous road closures.

>

>

> I sat in a huge queue of traffic at the bottom of

> Lordship Lane trying to get on to the South

> Circular- backed up as far as Court Lane. Then sat

> in yet more queuing traffic on the South Circular,

> then the same on the way back.

>

> Anyone that thinks these closures are creating

> less pollution is insane.

>

> And this is the quietest it will ever be- wait

> until the Football & Rugby fixtures start at the

> weekends, the children go back to school and

> everyone is unfurloughed and driving at rush

> hour...

>

> Add your experiences to the Southwark map- I am

> sure the Council will do their best to ignore them

> so join One Dulwich to make your voice heard too.

>

> https://dulwichvillagestreetspace.commonplace.is

>

> They are treating us local residents like

> idiots...

[Earl Aelfheah]

Court lane to dulwich village takes around 6 mins in the car (according to google), yet people denying that the diversion only adds a few minutes at most. How quick was the journey before? The changes are not stopping anyone making essential journeys.

Previously it could take several minutes to negotiate the junction as a pedestrian trying to get across from calton avenue, especially if you had mobility issues, or were with young children. Why was no one worrying about the impact on elderly people travelling on foot?

The reality is that people don't like having a few minutes added to local car journeys, to make it easier for people to get about by foot or by bike, whilst claiming that they're in favour of reducing car usage.

[mr.chicken]

Wil72 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I travelled from East Dulwich to West Norwood

> yesterday in the middle of the afternoon (to buy

> paint so couldn't walk or cycle)

How much paint were you buying?

I bought a wheely basket (they sell them in Brixton, they're about a tenner and last for years even when heavily overused). With one of them, and maybe a couple of bungee cords, you can easily take a few large tins of paint on foot.

>

> Anyone that thinks these closures are creating

> less pollution is insane.

It's a well known thing in traffic engineering that habits take a while to change. People don't generally like being part of a traffic jam, so people will start to change their habits. If we insisted on instantaneous change then no changes would ever happen.

[Abe_froeman]

Yes you should have walked back from B and Q to east dulwich with a wheely basket!!

[Earl Aelfheah]

A bit of a reality check here. The only change is that from Court Lane or Calton avenue, you have to go round. It's a few more minutes. South circular is often snarled up, that's nothing to do with these changes.

[Earl Aelfheah]

How much longer do people honestly think the changes add to an average journey?

According to Waze, the longest it takes to get from Townley Road to Dulwich Village (at 17:30), is 5 minutes. In total. it would have taken a few using Calton Avenue previously. Is this really what people are getting upset about? An additional 2 minutes?

[Earl Aelfheah]

What's more, 'One Dulwich' are arguing to keep restrictions in place during busy times anyway, so it's really only the shorter delays at quiet times that they're objecting to. Less than a few minutes?

[redpost]

You're missing the point:

It's every car owners god given right to drive where they want, when they want, whatever speed they want and for whatever purpose they want.

Unimpeeded by speed limits, tolls, speed cameras, crossings, congestion charges, cyclists, pedestrians, horses, llamas, illegal immigrants etc etc

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> A bit of a reality check here. The only change is

> that from Court Lane or Calton avenue, you have to

> go round. It's a few more minutes. South circular

> is often snarled up, that's nothing to do with

> these changes.

No co-incidence is it that since the closures came into place Lordship Lane and the A205 have been snarled up most times of the day? East Dulwich Grove has seen a noticeable increase in the amount of traffic, but, of course, because the council aren't monitoring those places they have no data to show what is actually happening. How convenient.

And please, do not give me the "it's only a few minutes extra travel time" as that totally undermines your stated premise that these closures are to reduce pollution - what you are saying is utterly counter-intuitive.

The point One Dulwich are trying to make is that these closures are not properly thought through and the reason they are garnering so much support is that people across Dulwich are fed-up by the way the council forces these changes through without any consideration for the majority of people who live in the area. The fact so many post on here to deposition One Dulwich shows just how effective they are being - the playing field is being levelled and a few people don't like it.....some of us want a balanced approach to traffic management, others want traffic management to be built around the premise that cars are evil and must be stopped.....

[Earl Aelfheah]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And please, do not give me the "it's only a few

> minutes extra travel time" as that totally

> undermines your stated premise that these closures

> are to reduce pollution - what you are saying is

> utterly counter-intuitive.

It takes cars a little longer and discourages them from cutting through Court Lane or Calton Avenue, whilst making it a little easier, quicker and safer for people walking / cycling to navigate what was previously a challenging junction. The intention is to encourage walking and cycling. The fact that it adds a few minutes to local car journeys also encourages people to think about whether they might walk instead, where it's relatively easy to do so (not for every journey, all the time).

How many extra minutes do you think it's added to an average car journey, from Townley Road to Dulwich Village, or Court Lane to the South Circular?

[Earl Aelfheah]

The point is that if someone really needs to use their car, this isn't going to stop them. If they're making a short local journey (the type that in many cases could be done by foot or by bike and of which there are a lot), then a few extra minutes may discourage them from hopping in the car.

[jane21]

Hello Rahrahrah, it took 20 minutes for me to travel from pickwick to Woodwarde road with ladders; I am a local business and it is making life difficult. It will be far worse in early september.

[Metallic]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Court lane to dulwich village takes around 6 mins

> in the car (according to google), yet people

> denying that the diversion only adds a few minutes

> at most. How quick was the journey before? The

> changes are not stopping anyone making essential

> journeys.

>

> Previously it could take several minutes to

> negotiate the junction as a pedestrian trying to

> get across from calton avenue, especially if you

> had mobility issues, or were with young children.

> Why was no one worrying about the impact on

> elderly people travelling on foot?

>

> The reality is that people don't like having a few

> minutes added to local car journeys, to make it

> easier for people to get about by foot or by bike,

> whilst claiming that they're in favour of reducing

> car usage.

There has been plenty of complaints over the pedestrian crossing at the base of Calton Avenue and the danger to anyone using it, going back to the day it was unveiled. And it cost over half a million to make it so unusable we now have this version. people have been injured there in accidents, and who takes any notice? No one.